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 Episode 4x08 [We'll Always Have Bourbon Street]

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PostSubject: Episode 4x08 [We'll Always Have Bourbon Street]   Thu Dec 06, 2012 12:04 pm

Discuss tonight's all new episode of The Vampire Diaries.

This is a spoiler friendly zone!

Enjoy!

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PostSubject: Re: Episode 4x08 [We'll Always Have Bourbon Street]   Thu Dec 06, 2012 11:54 pm

Wow, this episode was intense! I really enjoyed the girl bonding!

I feel bad for Stefan because it doesn't look good for him.

But, Tyler made my night, gahhh I love him!!! When the hybrids bowed down to him, I screamed.

I'm glad Caroline realized how annoying she was cause I was starting to not like her and I'm not even for (or against) DE.

Charlotte ass was crazy!

DE sex scene was so graphic, and I wonder if Damon is going to let her go?

And Bonnie in next weeks promo, she was rubbing up on Jeremy legs? It gave me so many Beremy feels lol.

Really good episode though.

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PostSubject: Re: Episode 4x08 [We'll Always Have Bourbon Street]   Fri Dec 07, 2012 2:08 am

Wow... this epsiode was good I liked it for so many reasons.

Frist, Tyler was my hero, when he pulled out the Boss in him and became the Alpha... oh the feels that I got when they all had to bow to him. I LOVED IT

DE was ok, but I find that I am totally turned off by Elena... maybe i will start to like her later on but for right now, I'm just not feeling her.

Caroline made some good points about both Elena and Bonnie's relationships with two men who have or had shady past/present. However this is there choice and some times the only way people learn is by doing things the hard way.

The brother bonding was cute but felt forced to me, it was like JP wants us to belive Stefan and Damon can be ok when it is very clear that with this whole Elena thing it just isn't going to happen that way.

The Expression magic... um why are people not talking about this. I mean it is the big red flag about Shane not to metion forshadowing of Bonnie going bad. This is the storyline that has me the most interested in this show at the moment because it will involve not only Bonnie and shane but it could Jeremy, Damon, Klaus, and Silias. I think it is so funny that while people are worried about DE and SE drama that they are missing the huge elephant in the room which is Shane... dude has a plan in the work and it will blow peoples minds if they are not paying attention to it.

anyway, a really good episode and I am looking forward to this Shane/ Bonnie bad/ shit is about to go down storyline that is coming... and trust me it is a comin Very Happy

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PostSubject: Re: Episode 4x08 [We'll Always Have Bourbon Street]   Fri Dec 07, 2012 2:41 am

I don't know how I feel about Elena, her with Damon kind of gets on my nerves and it's only been 2 episodes. I don't hate them but, I don't know how I feel about it.


Though, Caroline made good points about Damon--but to me, she had only been around Shane for 10 seconds and although he is definitely shady, how would she even know? So that is what was so annoying for me. No one gave her grief for falling for Tyler, and even though I love Tyler he has a pretty shady past himself. She has just been too OTT for me lately, so I hope they keep her toned down some.

Right now it seems that the writers are trying to make a point to Defan because Damon is the more selfless with his brother than with Elena and it showed that in this episode when he didn't go to war with him, yet he couldn't be selfless with Elena about the sire bond.

And I agree about the mythology and the Expression magic stuff. I am always more interested in that stuff than the main triangle. I've seen people be so clueless about the mythology because they only pay attention to DE. I just don't see how a person can watch a show for just one couple. Then why watch at all if you only want to see that couple, just Youtube the scenes. I don't get that.

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PostSubject: Re: Episode 4x08 [We'll Always Have Bourbon Street]   Fri Dec 07, 2012 5:50 am

KrayBaby wrote:
I don't know how I feel about Elena, her with Damon kind of gets on my nerves and it's only been 2 episodes. I don't hate them but, I don't know how I feel about it.


Though, Caroline made good points about Damon--but to me, she had only been around Shane for 10 seconds and although he is definitely shady, how would she even know? So that is what was so annoying for me. No one gave her grief for falling for Tyler, and even though I love Tyler he has a pretty shady past himself. She has just been too OTT for me lately, so I hope they keep her toned down some.

Right now it seems that the writers are trying to make a point to Defan because Damon is the more selfless with his brother than with Elena and it showed that in this episode when he didn't go to war with him, yet he couldn't be selfless with Elena about the sire bond.

And I agree about the mythology and the Expression magic stuff. I am always more interested in that stuff than the main triangle. I've seen people be so clueless about the mythology because they only pay attention to DE. I just don't see how a person can watch a show for just one couple. Then why watch at all if you only want to see that couple, just Youtube the scenes. I don't get that.

I think that is the reason why I don't mind so much that Caroline is getting a bad vibe from Shane... because there is a bad vibe to be had. Damon and Caroline seem to have a bad feeling about this guy and after this epsiode it is with good reason, But I can see what you mean when you say that she doesn't know him well enough to make that call on the other i think it just goes to show how good she has become at being able to read people.

As for people watching ths show for a couple you are so right. If the only reason a person is watching a show is for DE or SE of BD or TC or KC or who ever they ship then no... you are not going to like the show because you are more worried about a couple then the plot of the story... which is sad because people who are only watchin for DE are going to be dissappointed because DE can't carry this show... not now or ever.

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PostSubject: Re: Episode 4x08 [We'll Always Have Bourbon Street]   Fri Dec 07, 2012 1:26 pm

YumYumOnigiri wrote:
KrayBaby wrote:
I don't know how I feel about Elena, her with Damon kind of gets on my nerves and it's only been 2 episodes. I don't hate them but, I don't know how I feel about it.


Though, Caroline made good points about Damon--but to me, she had only been around Shane for 10 seconds and although he is definitely shady, how would she even know? So that is what was so annoying for me. No one gave her grief for falling for Tyler, and even though I love Tyler he has a pretty shady past himself. She has just been too OTT for me lately, so I hope they keep her toned down some.

Right now it seems that the writers are trying to make a point to Defan because Damon is the more selfless with his brother than with Elena and it showed that in this episode when he didn't go to war with him, yet he couldn't be selfless with Elena about the sire bond.

And I agree about the mythology and the Expression magic stuff. I am always more interested in that stuff than the main triangle. I've seen people be so clueless about the mythology because they only pay attention to DE. I just don't see how a person can watch a show for just one couple. Then why watch at all if you only want to see that couple, just Youtube the scenes. I don't get that.

I think that is the reason why I don't mind so much that Caroline is getting a bad vibe from Shane... because there is a bad vibe to be had. Damon and Caroline seem to have a bad feeling about this guy and after this epsiode it is with good reason, But I can see what you mean when you say that she doesn't know him well enough to make that call on the other i think it just goes to show how good she has become at being able to read people.

As for people watching ths show for a couple you are so right. If the only reason a person is watching a show is for DE or SE of BD or TC or KC or who ever they ship then no... you are not going to like the show because you are more worried about a couple then the plot of the story... which is sad because people who are only watchin for DE are going to be dissappointed because DE can't carry this show... not now or ever.

I don't know I just think she was being overly judgmental. She didn't even give him a chance. Why are they calling him creepy, I just don't get it from Caroline. At least Damon and Elena had been around him and Damon had talked to him to form an opinion, even though Damon is suspicious of every one. The audience knows he is shady as hell because we actually see it, while all Caroline saw was him asking about the judges or whatever it was he asked them last week. I don't mind her being cautious for her friend, to me it was just over the top. And then her judgment when she is making googly eyes and flirting with Klaus is just...ugh. I am wondering though if Damon will tell Bonnie that Shane is using her since he knows for a fact that he is? It will be really messed up if he doesn't, I guess we will find out next week since they will all be at the lakehouse.

And nope, DE def can't carry this show, because with the other ships like Forwood, Klaroline, Bamon and Stelena plus the indifferent people is gonna be bigger than DE.

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PostSubject: Re: Episode 4x08 [We'll Always Have Bourbon Street]   Fri Dec 07, 2012 2:40 pm

I guess I'm one of the few who didn't really like this episode.

We had a Delena sex scene last week... did they really have to start this episode with another one? I'm not a prude or anything, but I think they should tone it down a little bit.

On the other hand, I slightly warmed up to Delena last night... still don't really like them, though. It just feels... unnatural. Elena moved on way too quickly. I do believe she loves Damon, but shouldn't she be a little more torn?

I usually LOVE friendship scenes between the three girls, but the scene where they were dancing and laughing felt fake to me. I didn't get the strong friendship vibes I got in their past scenes.

I don't know, maybe I'm just burned out and seeing everything in a negative light.

On the other hand, here are a few things I really liked:
- Tyler was awesome. He truly is a hero.
- I really love the Shane storyline. I have not been this intrigued by a TVD character since Elijah first appeared in season 2. Much like Elijah, Shane's motives and allegiances are really unclear, and I really can't wait to see how this mystery will unravel.
- Bonnie. Smile She looked so cute and innocent this episode.
- I loved Charlotte's story. That was messed up, but pretty hilarious. Damon's facial expression when he realized she really had been counting bricks for the past 70 years was priceless.
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PostSubject: Re: Episode 4x08 [We'll Always Have Bourbon Street]   Fri Dec 07, 2012 3:29 pm

THE ONLY GOOD THINGS ABOUT THIS EP WAS
BONNIE
TYLER
SHANE
STEFAN
THE WITCH ( WHO IS FROM TRUE BLOOD )
LEXIE
CARE

OTHER THEN THAT
It all sucked

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PostSubject: Re: Episode 4x08 [We'll Always Have Bourbon Street]   Fri Dec 07, 2012 7:39 pm

So this episode was pretty interesting..I've never really loved flashbacks to be honest but I thought it was okay Smile

I officially hate the main love trio now, I have no intrest in it at all but I have realised from this episode that I am team Salvatore Wink

Tyler was the hero of the episode, so proud of him Very Happy I wish there were more Forwood scenes though because I don't know what they're thinking of eachother (if that makes sense) atm!

The whole girls night seemed totally weird, when I meet up with my friends we don't dance and drink, we sit and talk and stuff like that. I really don't like the new Elena though Sad

I found the Charlotte storyline so so so funny Laughing I love how she spent like 70 years counting bricks! I don't know if we were meant to feel sorry for her or something but I found it hilarious Smile

Is it only me who thinks it's like Caroline & Bonnie have swapped personalities? Caroline is now sooo irritating (sorry Bonnie fans) but I like Bonnie way more now. She's a lot more laid back Very Happy
The next episode looks amazingggg! Looks like Tyler is going to have a massive part in it since a lot of the promo is aimed at him! A bigger character is getting killed off and I think there's a chance it may be either an original, April, Shane, Hayley or I am worried that it may be Tyler Sad overall a pretty good episode with some pretty funny stuff happening Smile

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PostSubject: Re: Episode 4x08 [We'll Always Have Bourbon Street]   Sat Dec 08, 2012 1:06 am

I thought Charlotte was funny too. She was some kind of crazy.

And as for next week, I really don't think it's Tyler, Hayley, or an Original.
The "big" death is from someone who has been on the show since season 1. We know that all of the main cast members have tweeted about filming to at least episodes 12/13. So, I think it will be some hybrids to die and probably Carol or Liz. I don't see them killing off Liz yet, especially since Caroline just lost her father.

Also, it's a spoiler about Klaus being pissed after he finds out about the hybrids breaking the sire bond. So, I think Carol will end up dying directly or indirectly because of Klaus.

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PostSubject: Re: Episode 4x08 [We'll Always Have Bourbon Street]   Sat Dec 08, 2012 3:14 am

Yeah I think it will be Carol:
- TVD has a track record of killing parental figures.
- Klaus is going to be pissed at Tyler, so it makes sense he'd try to make a point by killing his mother.
- Bonnie's father first appears in the next episode (after the hiatus)... Perhaps partially because the writers wanted to make sure there are still some parental figures left on the show.
- Finally, if she dies, Klaus or Damon could run for mayor! (only half kidding)
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PostSubject: Re: Episode 4x08 [We'll Always Have Bourbon Street]   Sat Dec 08, 2012 12:49 pm

Hmm, yeah I guess it probably will be her...that would be such a shame though! Do you think Tyler would become mayor? that'd be so funny! lol!

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PostSubject: Re: Episode 4x08 [We'll Always Have Bourbon Street]   Mon Dec 10, 2012 1:37 am

I loved the episode, mostly because of DEx and D/E lol, but I won't take up my whol post fangirling over it.

Bonnie: I forking love Bonnie. She's being a good friend to Elena. Plus she has shown so much growth this season. I hope Damon tells her, or she figures out herself, that Shane is the enemy.

Caroline: I'll just say this and drop it ok you guys? This rape stuff, I don't see it as rape, and not just because I'm Team Damon. From what I remember of Damon and Caroline in S1, she wanted to have sex with him, and went there willingly. Now I haven't seen S1 in awhile so correct me if I'm wrong, but there was no compulsion during the sex scene, just him biting her after they already had sex. How is it rape if she had sex with him willingly? And There was no more sex between them after he started using compulsion on her, so if compulsion=rape then every vampire on the show is guilty of it.

I just think it's really gross people are freely throwing around the rape word, when no one from the show intended it to be like that. Even in this episode Caroline more or less says she slept with the guy willingly, but people just won't let it go, and it seriously irritates me. I mean, yes, Damon was really shitty to her, I get that, but it wasn't rape.

Also Caroline is seriously OTT with this Team Stefan stuff, in my opinion. She still sees Damon as the guy who treated her bad in S1, ok, I get this, she can hate whoever she wants, but she's acting like Stefan is a much better choice. She's being a hypocrite, seeing Damon as the bad guy, conveniently forgetting the progress and growth she's personally seen, and still see Stefan as the good guy, conveniently forgetting last season and him ripping people apart and treating Elena bad.

This is what gets me, is the fact that Caroline should be pissed that Stefan, the guy she considers her friend, the good guy, the guy who was there for her, treated her best friend Elena horrible, just like Damon treated her. So shouldn't she be just as pissed off at Stefan as she is at Damon? She's acting like she hasn't seen Damon's growth and change into a better man.

She was there when he saved her and her boyfriend from the sacrifice.

She was there when he saved not only her life, but the lives of many of her friends many times.

She's there when he always helps them out, in spite of how he feels about their plans.

Some people like to say that the only reason he saves her and her friends is because of Elena, which I say, why does it matter who he does it for? The fact is he still does it. But let's look at some stuff that wasn't because of Elena.

He defended Caroline to her mom when her mom first found out about Caroline.

He took a fatal werewolf bite for Caroline. Yes, the main part he saved her was to but Elena time for the blood to get out her system, but I doubt he planned on getting bit by a werewolf that night.

She came to him for advice about Tyler in S2, and he gave it to her.

He didn't kill her mom, despite everyone thinking he would.

He let her get his blood bags.

Like I said, Caroline has the absolute right to hate whoever she wants, what I don't like is how she blows smoke up one brothers ass, conveniently forgetting his bad deeds and abuse against Elena, and condemn the other brother, conveniently forgetting his growth and change into a better person. If Damon is bad for Elena, so is Stefan. She's letting her views on Damon cloud her judgement, instead of being a good friend and seeing this from a neutral viewpoint, and judging both brothers accordingly, or letting Elena make her own decisions and just being there for her. But yeah, that's my opinion. I admit I'm biased since I'm obviously Team Damon/DElena but I feel like she's being a hypocrite and waving around her epic love flag, when Stefan is no better than Damon, and has treated Elena bad last season. Where's her rage and hate for Stefan for treating her best friend like how his brother treated her?

Even Caroline fans are getting pissed because the show is using her for a mouthpiece for another ship, and being super OTT with it. But yeah, I'll get off my soapbox.

Charlotte: Damn, she was crazy lol. I did feel bad for her though because you could tell she really did love/like Damon. I honestly don't think Damon letting her go worked that well, imo.

Stefan: I still hate him and don't like him so I won't bash him or write a long post. He was acting like a little bitch this episode though, acting like Elena didn't have feelings for Damon while human. He's always known so I don't get him. And then expecting Damon to give up Elena because Stefan wants him to. Since Stefan is the king of respecting decisions, won't Damon letting Elena go take away her free will and choices? She said in the last scene that her feelings are real, and the witch said you have to tell the sired vampire to stop loving you and then leave that person. She admits her feelings are real, that she knows their real, so wouldn't Damon be taking away her choice?

Girls night: Man I missed the girls being teenagers and just having fun. It was going great until Caroline decided to bash Damon. Like come on, we get it show, she hates Damon, but seriously did she need to continuously bash him when they were having fun, and she knew before Elena got pissed both at MMF and before the girls night started? Am I the only one who thinks it's OTT? Like they were having a good time, then out of nowhere she starts in on Damon.

This is a question to you guys, seriously. Do y'all think she's kinda OTT with her bashing of Damon? Or am I just being too sensitive since I'm Team Damon? Before you answer please read what I wrote above about her. After you read it do you still think she's extremely justified in her hate? And if you really think so, you can tell me I'm being too sensitive because I'm Team Damon, I won't cry or anything. I honestly want to hear you guys thoughts.

Other than that, I loved the episode, I loved Damon, I loved Elena, I loved the DEx lol. And man, Elena is really happy. She's smiling more since becoming a vampire, having more fun, being a teenager. She's no longer broody, depressed, mopey Elena from other seasons. She growing up and maturing, which is a good look on her.
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PostSubject: Re: Episode 4x08 [We'll Always Have Bourbon Street]   Mon Dec 10, 2012 10:35 pm

Hi, Damonic

Okay, well let me just speak on the Caroline stuff first. Okay, I just watched the beginning of season 1, last night actually. He definitely did NOT rape her. She wanted it to have sex with Damon-fact. However, after he bit her and she screamed, the very next morning she was scared for her life and tried to sneak away while Damon was sleep and he saw her and threw her on the bed and she screams again, we don't know what really happened here, so I can see why some fans call rape because we can assume that he continued sleeping with her after she tried to get away but he compelled her--so he took away her choice. She clearly didn't want to have sex with him any longer after she found out he was a vampire. Personally, I wouldn't call it rape though. He definitely abused her physically, mentally, and emotionally though.

Now, about Stefan stanning, I agree. I haven't been the biggest Caroline fan lately and not because of her Stefan stanning, she has just been annoying me and it really came to a head on 4.06 when she gave up Chris to be killed to save Elena. But the Stefan stuff was really OTT, and so I'm hoping she will calm it down a bit. I understand she hates him and has every right to hate him. True, he did save her twice. But the first time--for me doesn't really count because he only did it for Elena, otherwise I don't believe he would have done it. Now, he definitely did save her from a werewolf bite. At the same time he abused her in season 1 and tried to kill her dad in season 3 and, and he tried to kill her twice--so he owed her that much to save her life, so I can see her POV but they just over did it IMO. Oh, and can I say that Caroline has saved his life as well and Stefan's--when Mason ratted them out to Liz And I don't think anyone in the group really knew about the stuff Stefan did to Elena, she didn't want to talk about Damon to them and so I'm sure she never went into depth about Stefan in all of his "bad boy glory"--and at the same Stefan saved her life and hasn't done anything directly to her that was horrible.
But to answer your question, she was definitely OTT and freaking annoying. But my opinion may be biased a bit because she was already on thin ice with me since 4x06.

Stefan: I like Stefan. But it is a lose/lose situation right now with the sire bond because either way it's taking her choices away. The whole thing is confusing though because DE fans says it's real and SE fans says its fake and I can see valid points from both sides. I will say though, even though Elena said "it's real." At the same time it can be said that's not because right before she said that, Damon said "You know what would make me happy, To know that this entire time that I’ve been completely in love with you that what you actually felt for me was real." Because even though everyone knows Elena had feelings for Damon before she turned--did those human feelings exceed what she felt for Stefan to the point to act like he really doesn't exist anymore? So, honestly it could go either way, I'm just glad I'm not invested in either ship LOL. I'm just going to wait and see how it plays out.

I too, loved girls night. If for anything, to see Bonnie laughing and smiling. It was cute.

I like that Elena isn't so mopey, but again we have to wonder how much of it is the sire bond and how much is real.

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PostSubject: Re: Episode 4x08 [We'll Always Have Bourbon Street]   Mon Dec 10, 2012 11:08 pm

While yes Caroline consented the first night but after that night there was no way Caroline was consenting with having sex with Damon afterwards ergo that is rape. People need to stop bringing up Caroline sleeping Damon pre-biting her as it does not negate the fact he abused her afterwards and Elena trying to used that situation was disgusting as she was aware Caroline didn't know and was the first threaten Damon with the authorities. I person reserves the right to change their mind. It very similar to how Damon and Andie's relationship continue Andie started freaking out when she heard he like killing people until he said "You're okay".
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PostSubject: Re: Episode 4x08 [We'll Always Have Bourbon Street]   Mon Dec 10, 2012 11:39 pm

bamonbaby wrote:
While yes Caroline consented the first night but after that night there was no way Caroline was consenting with having sex with Damon afterwards ergo that is rape. People need to stop bringing up Caroline sleeping Damon pre-biting her as it does not negate the fact he abused her afterwards and Elena trying to used that situation was disgusting as she was aware Caroline didn't know and was the first threaten Damon with the authorities. I person reserves the right to change their mind. It very similar to how Damon and Andie's relationship continue Andie started freaking out when she heard he like killing people until he said "You're okay".

But after that night they wasn't shown having sex at all anymore. Unless I'm mistaken? I haven't watched S1 in awhile.

Andie, she still knew what he was, what he did, he just compelled her to keep his secret. She still had free will, she just couldn't tell people what he was. She liked him before he compelled her, which is the reason she stuck around, becasue she liked him. He didn't wipe her memories or anything, she still had free will. That one scene in S2 where he tells her to leave, but she basically leaves his room and comes back naked trying to have sex with him proves my point, she willingly stayed with him, him being a vampire wasn't even big deal to her.

Even in the show though, Elena asked why caroline jumped right into bed with Damon after meeting Damon, there was nothing said about her being forced. I'm not trying to say what Damon did was right, I'm just saying crying rape is a bit much. I get that he treated her pretty badly, but rape? If it was truly rape then why wasn't she as mad at him in S2 as she is now? In S2 she seemed to have moved on past that subject of Damon, and didn't seem too bothered by being around him.

In S2 she even invites Damon into her bedroom alone, to get advice from him about Tyler. If it was rape, why allow him to be alone with you in your house, in your room? And why joke around with him like she did plenty times in S2, shouldn't she be avoiding him? For example,(Pretend I'm a girl) If I got raped I for sure wouldn't be hanging around that person, laughing and joking with him like we're friends or something.

IDK, I just don't see it as rape. I'm not trying to make excuses for him, I just think that all it was, was Damon being a shitty person to her, and treating her bad.What do everyone else think? I welcome all opinions from everyone. It's refreshing to get a fresh perspective from non-DE fans, since I'm normally over at the DE forums.


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PostSubject: Re: Episode 4x08 [We'll Always Have Bourbon Street]   Tue Dec 11, 2012 12:06 am

Damonic wrote:
bamonbaby wrote:
While yes Caroline consented the first night but after that night there was no way Caroline was consenting with having sex with Damon afterwards ergo that is rape. People need to stop bringing up Caroline sleeping Damon pre-biting her as it does not negate the fact he abused her afterwards and Elena trying to used that situation was disgusting as she was aware Caroline didn't know and was the first threaten Damon with the authorities. I person reserves the right to change their mind. It very similar to how Damon and Andie's relationship continue Andie started freaking out when she heard he like killing people until he said "You're okay".

But after that night they wasn't shown having sex at all anymore. Unless I'm mistaken? I haven't watched S1 in awhile.

Andie, she still knew what he was, what he did, he just compelled her to keep his secret.

Even in the show though, Elena asked why caroline jumped right into bed with Damon after meeting Damon, there was nothing said about her being forced. I'm not trying to say what Damon did was right, I'm just saying crying rape is a bit much. I get that he treated her pretty badly, but rape? If it was truly rape then why wasn't she as mad at him in S2 as she is now? In S2 she seemed to have moved on past that subject of Damon, and didn't seem too bothered by being around him.

In S2 she even invites Damon into her bedroom alone, to get advice from him about Tyler. If it was rape, why allow him to be alone with you in your house, in your room? And why joke around with him like she did plenty times in S2, shouldn't she be avoiding him? For example,(Pretend I'm a girl) If I got raped I for sure wouldn't be hanging around that person, laughing and joking with him like we're friends or something.

IDK, I just don't see it as rape. I'm not trying to make excuses for him, I just think that all it was, was Damon being a shitty person to her, and treating her bad.What do everyone else think? I welcome all opinions from everyone. It's refreshing to get a fresh perspective from non-DE fans, since I'm normally over at the DE forums.

Andie was also compelled that she was okay that removes her fear of him and pretty much took the agency to decide if she would have continue. I did not feel bad when die for Damon because he treated her like crap so for him to be upset was ridiculous.

Caroline slept with Damon before knowing he was vampire and Damon has implied he was sleeping with Caroline after the first night and they were shown to be intimate after the first night. So she was crying rape for the first time but Elena bringing up the first time which has nothing to do with the times afterwards was foul and quite frankly she should have gotten her teeth kicked in. She knew of circumstances and it really had nothing to do with it. I dislike the writers for trying have Elena downplay what happened because yes she agree but once she started screaming she obviously wanted out.

I also considered Katherine sleeping with Stefan after compulsion rape too.

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PostSubject: Re: Episode 4x08 [We'll Always Have Bourbon Street]   Tue Dec 11, 2012 12:32 am

KrayBaby wrote:
Hi, Damonic

Okay, well let me just speak on the Caroline stuff first. Okay, I just watched the beginning of season 1, last night actually. He definitely did NOT rape her. She wanted it to have sex with Damon-fact. However, after he bit her and she screamed, the very next morning she was scared for her life and tried to sneak away while Damon was sleep and he saw her and threw her on the bed and she screams again, we don't know what really happened here, so I can see why some fans call rape because we can assume that he continued sleeping with her after she tried to get away but he compelled her--so he took away her choice. She clearly didn't want to have sex with him any longer after she found out he was a vampire. Personally, I wouldn't call it rape though. He definitely abused her physically, mentally, and emotionally though.

Now, about Stefan stanning, I agree. I haven't been the biggest Caroline fan lately and not because of her Stefan stanning, she has just been annoying me and it really came to a head on 4.06 when she gave up Chris to be killed to save Elena. But the Stefan stuff was really OTT, and so I'm hoping she will calm it down a bit. I understand she hates him and has every right to hate him. True, he did save her twice. But the first time--for me doesn't really count because he only did it for Elena, otherwise I don't believe he would have done it. Now, he definitely did save her from a werewolf bite. At the same time he abused her in season 1 and tried to kill her dad in season 3 and, and he tried to kill her twice--so he owed her that much to save her life, so I can see her POV but they just over did it IMO. Oh, and can I say that Caroline has saved his life as well and Stefan's--when Mason ratted them out to Liz And I don't think anyone in the group really knew about the stuff Stefan did to Elena, she didn't want to talk about Damon to them and so I'm sure she never went into depth about Stefan in all of his "bad boy glory"--and at the same Stefan saved her life and hasn't done anything directly to her that was horrible.
But to answer your question, she was definitely OTT and freaking annoying. But my opinion may be biased a bit because she was already on thin ice with me since 4x06.

Stefan: I like Stefan. But it is a lose/lose situation right now with the sire bond because either way it's taking her choices away. The whole thing is confusing though because DE fans says it's real and SE fans says its fake and I can see valid points from both sides. I will say though, even though Elena said "it's real." At the same time it can be said that's not because right before she said that, Damon said "You know what would make me happy, To know that this entire time that I’ve been completely in love with you that what you actually felt for me was real." Because even though everyone knows Elena had feelings for Damon before she turned--did those human feelings exceed what she felt for Stefan to the point to act like he really doesn't exist anymore? So, honestly it could go either way, I'm just glad I'm not invested in either ship LOL. I'm just going to wait and see how it plays out.

I too, loved girls night. If for anything, to see Bonnie laughing and smiling. It was cute.

I like that Elena isn't so mopey, but again we have to wonder how much of it is the sire bond and how much is real.


Caroline: I don't think he had sex with her again in the morning. I think he just fed from her, but I have nothing to back this up with so I'll concede. I admit he did treat her horrible, emotionally, etc like you said. The stuff about Damon saving her not counting because it was for Elena, Stefan does the same thing, does all the good stuff he do not count either, since it was because of Elena? Stefan doesn't care about anything that doesn't affect him or Elena directly. A lot of the stuff he does, just like Damon, is because of Elena. So if one brothers actions doesn't count because it was for Elena, then Stefan's heroic deeds doesn't count, right? For example, in S2 he agreed with Damon that Caroline had to be killed, but he ultimately agreed with Elena because that's what He always do. So, when he, in that same episode saved Caroline from Damon by stopping him, that doesn't count right? Because he did it for Elena, not because he wanted to, and Damon saving them doesn't count because of the "Because of Elena" excuse.

Trying to kill her Dad: The dude was trying to out him, tried to "Fix" his daughter so I didn't care that Damon tried to kill him. If someone threatened to out or tell my secret I would try to protect myself as well. It wasn't like he did it solely because he hates Caroline or has a vendetta against her, he was protecting himself.

Caroline Stefan stanning: Thank you for agreeing with me that it is OTT. I thought it was just me because I'm Team Damon, but I'm glad even here, people see it as OTT. Even Caroline fans are pissed their favorite character is a mouthpiece for stelena.

Elena being happy. I think it's because she came out of her hallucinations with a clear mind, which alleviated her guilt and let her free herself from her emotional baggage she carries.

Sire bond: DE has has 3 seasons of build up, so I'm pretty sure her feelings aren't because of the sire bond. In this episode it was stated that the sire bond doesn't affect feelings, just actions. But there have been plenty times these 8 episodes where Elena refused to do what Damon told her to do, doing the opposite.

A example people like to use for the sire bond affecting actions is the dress thing from 4x07. I don't think that's valid though, because Elena doesn't actually agree with him. She says the red dress looks pretty, then tells April to wear whichever one she wants. This sire bond sucks if Elena can pick and choose what she want to obey lol.
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PostSubject: Re: Episode 4x08 [We'll Always Have Bourbon Street]   Tue Dec 11, 2012 12:37 am

bamonbaby wrote:
Damonic wrote:
bamonbaby wrote:
While yes Caroline consented the first night but after that night there was no way Caroline was consenting with having sex with Damon afterwards ergo that is rape. People need to stop bringing up Caroline sleeping Damon pre-biting her as it does not negate the fact he abused her afterwards and Elena trying to used that situation was disgusting as she was aware Caroline didn't know and was the first threaten Damon with the authorities. I person reserves the right to change their mind. It very similar to how Damon and Andie's relationship continue Andie started freaking out when she heard he like killing people until he said "You're okay".

But after that night they wasn't shown having sex at all anymore. Unless I'm mistaken? I haven't watched S1 in awhile.

Andie, she still knew what he was, what he did, he just compelled her to keep his secret.

Even in the show though, Elena asked why caroline jumped right into bed with Damon after meeting Damon, there was nothing said about her being forced. I'm not trying to say what Damon did was right, I'm just saying crying rape is a bit much. I get that he treated her pretty badly, but rape? If it was truly rape then why wasn't she as mad at him in S2 as she is now? In S2 she seemed to have moved on past that subject of Damon, and didn't seem too bothered by being around him.

In S2 she even invites Damon into her bedroom alone, to get advice from him about Tyler. If it was rape, why allow him to be alone with you in your house, in your room? And why joke around with him like she did plenty times in S2, shouldn't she be avoiding him? For example,(Pretend I'm a girl) If I got raped I for sure wouldn't be hanging around that person, laughing and joking with him like we're friends or something.

IDK, I just don't see it as rape. I'm not trying to make excuses for him, I just think that all it was, was Damon being a shitty person to her, and treating her bad.What do everyone else think? I welcome all opinions from everyone. It's refreshing to get a fresh perspective from non-DE fans, since I'm normally over at the DE forums.

Andie was also compelled that she was okay that removes her fear of him and pretty much took the agency to decide if she would have continue. I did not feel bad when die for Damon because he treated her like crap so for him to be upset was ridiculous.

Caroline slept with Damon before knowing he was vampire and Damon has implied he was sleeping with Caroline after the first night and they were shown to be intimate after the first night. So she was crying rape for the first time but Elena bringing up the first time which has nothing to do with the times afterwards was foul and quite frankly she should have gotten her teeth kicked in. She knew of circumstances and it really had nothing to do with it. I dislike the writers for trying have Elena downplay what happened because yes she agree but once she started screaming she obviously wanted out.

I also considered Katherine sleeping with Stefan after compulsion rape too.


The show writers have said though that it's not rape, that they hadn't intended it to be rape, and that this is a show about vampires so human moral and rules don't apply. So no, I don't see it as rape.
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PostSubject: Re: Episode 4x08 [We'll Always Have Bourbon Street]   Tue Dec 11, 2012 12:52 am

First off while I do think both Brothers generally do things because of Elena how they go about it is differently. Damon only does basic things in the name of Elena whereas Stefan generally goes the extra mile for example with Caroline's training that was not done for Elena's benefit, neither when he attempted to help Vicki. He also back in season 1 went to Bonnie's aid that had nothing to do with Elena either. Also Stefan imo has not gone out of his way disrespecting Elena's friends and victimizing them and not apologizing to them afterwards (Stefan has actually apologize for the Abby thing, Damon didn't). So again I don't get why the writers are having Elena thinking her friends would be happy for them, Damon has done absolutely nothing to redeem himself or (imo is what these people really want) sincerely apologize. So she needs to cool it with the just be happy for me ish as she wants it both ways and it can't be.

Damon should had stayed out of that...point blank and he only did it because he was having another tantrum as usual.

Personally I think Stefan stanning is just to make Caroline not look like she has a point about Damon though and because instead stanning for Stefan she should be voicing all those transgressions of the past and recent (cause lest we forget but it seems Elena has Damon just try to murder Matt because of his "feels").

As for her being happy, I wouldn't argue she is more happy with Damon but more carefree but she being unrealistic with how she expects her friends should feel cause let's face it Elena has took it upon herself to dictate other people's relationships (I am going to hold her Jyler friendship blocking over her head from season 3).

As for the sirebond while it explains some plotholes like hw all sudden love for Stefan seems to be diminished and why she would sleep with Damon so fast (it was like two days) and her audacity to move into his crib I too thought this was just a cop out to make the triangle drag on because yes she had feelings for Damon but it has never been shown to be stronger than her one for Damon.

As for the whole rape, I have to always receive counseling from women's center so we can do a seminar with incoming freshmen and training of the situation was anything sexual after the first night (cause the writers even refer to Andie as being like Caroline from season 1) was rape.
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PostSubject: Re: Episode 4x08 [We'll Always Have Bourbon Street]   Tue Dec 11, 2012 12:57 am

Damonic wrote:
bamonbaby wrote:
Damonic wrote:
bamonbaby wrote:
While yes Caroline consented the first night but after that night there was no way Caroline was consenting with having sex with Damon afterwards ergo that is rape. People need to stop bringing up Caroline sleeping Damon pre-biting her as it does not negate the fact he abused her afterwards and Elena trying to used that situation was disgusting as she was aware Caroline didn't know and was the first threaten Damon with the authorities. I person reserves the right to change their mind. It very similar to how Damon and Andie's relationship continue Andie started freaking out when she heard he like killing people until he said "You're okay".

But after that night they wasn't shown having sex at all anymore. Unless I'm mistaken? I haven't watched S1 in awhile.

Andie, she still knew what he was, what he did, he just compelled her to keep his secret.

Even in the show though, Elena asked why caroline jumped right into bed with Damon after meeting Damon, there was nothing said about her being forced. I'm not trying to say what Damon did was right, I'm just saying crying rape is a bit much. I get that he treated her pretty badly, but rape? If it was truly rape then why wasn't she as mad at him in S2 as she is now? In S2 she seemed to have moved on past that subject of Damon, and didn't seem too bothered by being around him.

In S2 she even invites Damon into her bedroom alone, to get advice from him about Tyler. If it was rape, why allow him to be alone with you in your house, in your room? And why joke around with him like she did plenty times in S2, shouldn't she be avoiding him? For example,(Pretend I'm a girl) If I got raped I for sure wouldn't be hanging around that person, laughing and joking with him like we're friends or something.

IDK, I just don't see it as rape. I'm not trying to make excuses for him, I just think that all it was, was Damon being a shitty person to her, and treating her bad.What do everyone else think? I welcome all opinions from everyone. It's refreshing to get a fresh perspective from non-DE fans, since I'm normally over at the DE forums.

Andie was also compelled that she was okay that removes her fear of him and pretty much took the agency to decide if she would have continue. I did not feel bad when die for Damon because he treated her like crap so for him to be upset was ridiculous.

Caroline slept with Damon before knowing he was vampire and Damon has implied he was sleeping with Caroline after the first night and they were shown to be intimate after the first night. So she was crying rape for the first time but Elena bringing up the first time which has nothing to do with the times afterwards was foul and quite frankly she should have gotten her teeth kicked in. She knew of circumstances and it really had nothing to do with it. I dislike the writers for trying have Elena downplay what happened because yes she agree but once she started screaming she obviously wanted out.

I also considered Katherine sleeping with Stefan after compulsion rape too.


The show writers have said though that it's not rape, that they hadn't intended it to be rape, and that this is a show about vampires so human moral and rules don't apply. So no, I don't see it as rape.

Then the writer should have educated themselves before they wrote it because that was rape. Also this is show about vampires who interact with humans and as someone posted people want to excuse them from their bad actions by saying their vampires but when someone wants to kill them it all sudden we are suppose to care for said vampires's humanities. Whether you see it rape is not the issue, there are rape victims who watch this show and have voiced that these aspects the show unnerves them just like the subtle racism, tokenism, and downright erasure of history bothers me.
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PostSubject: Re: Episode 4x08 [We'll Always Have Bourbon Street]   Tue Dec 11, 2012 1:10 am

bamonbaby wrote:
First off while I do think both Brothers generally do things because of Elena how they go about it is differently. Damon only does basic things in the name of Elena whereas Stefan generally goes the extra mile for example with Caroline's training that was not done for Elena's benefit, neither when he attempted to help Vicki. He also back in season 1 went to Bonnie's aid that had nothing to do with Elena either. Also Stefan imo has not gone out of his way disrespecting Elena's friends and victimizing them and not apologizing to them afterwards (Stefan has actually apologize for the Abby thing, Damon didn't). So again I don't get why the writers are having Elena thinking her friends would be happy for them, Damon has done absolutely nothing to redeem himself or (imo is what these people really want) sincerely apologize. So she needs to cool it with the just be happy for me ish as she wants it both ways and it can't be.

Damon should had stayed out of that...point blank and he only did it because he was having another tantrum as usual.

Personally I think Stefan stanning is just to make Caroline not look like she has a point about Damon though and because instead stanning for Stefan she should be voicing all those transgressions of the past and recent (cause lest we forget but it seems Elena has Damon just try to murder Matt because of his "feels").

As for her being happy, I wouldn't argue she is more happy with Damon but more carefree but she being unrealistic with how she expects her friends should feel cause let's face it Elena has took it upon herself to dictate other people's relationships (I am going to hold her Jyler friendship blocking over her head from season 3).

As for the sirebond while it explains some plotholes like hw all sudden love for Stefan seems to be diminished and why she would sleep with Damon so fast (it was like two days) and her audacity to move into his crib I too thought this was just a cop out to make the triangle drag on because yes she had feelings for Damon but it has never been shown to be stronger than her one for Damon.

As for the whole rape, I have to always receive counseling from women's center so we can do a seminar with incoming freshmen and training of the situation was anything sexual after the first night (cause the writers even refer to Andie as being like Caroline from season 1) was rape.

Which is exactly my point. Damon has also done things that wasn't for Elena, but the excuse is always made that it was for Elena, therefore doesn't count. Actually Damon apologized to Bonnie about Abbie, not Stefan. Damon has done lots to redeem himself, but if you don't see it I won't argue with you about it. Like I said before, Any and all the characters have the right to hate who they want, just don't blow smoke up one brothers ass and say he's good, conveniently forgetting the shit he's done, while condemning the other brother, conveniently forgetting all he's done for the town and everyone in it. If one brother is bad for Elena, so is the other. They both have done horrible shit, do stuff because of Elena, and kills people.

I actually never said Elena was happy because of Damon. I said because of vampirism she's acting like a teenager, having fun, smiling, etc.

How was her love for Stefan diminished? She spent all up until episode 7 with him, until Stefan broke up with her. Stefan knew back in S3 she had feelings for Damon.

Stefan still does things for Elena though, so if Damon's actions doesn't count because "It was for Elena" then Stefan's doesn't either.

Rape stuff. But The writers have said it wasn't rape, and they are the ones whose in control of the show. So if they say it isn't rape, it isn't rape.
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PostSubject: Re: Episode 4x08 [We'll Always Have Bourbon Street]   Tue Dec 11, 2012 1:15 am

bamonbaby wrote:
Damonic wrote:
bamonbaby wrote:
Damonic wrote:
bamonbaby wrote:
While yes Caroline consented the first night but after that night there was no way Caroline was consenting with having sex with Damon afterwards ergo that is rape. People need to stop bringing up Caroline sleeping Damon pre-biting her as it does not negate the fact he abused her afterwards and Elena trying to used that situation was disgusting as she was aware Caroline didn't know and was the first threaten Damon with the authorities. I person reserves the right to change their mind. It very similar to how Damon and Andie's relationship continue Andie started freaking out when she heard he like killing people until he said "You're okay".

But after that night they wasn't shown having sex at all anymore. Unless I'm mistaken? I haven't watched S1 in awhile.

Andie, she still knew what he was, what he did, he just compelled her to keep his secret.

Even in the show though, Elena asked why caroline jumped right into bed with Damon after meeting Damon, there was nothing said about her being forced. I'm not trying to say what Damon did was right, I'm just saying crying rape is a bit much. I get that he treated her pretty badly, but rape? If it was truly rape then why wasn't she as mad at him in S2 as she is now? In S2 she seemed to have moved on past that subject of Damon, and didn't seem too bothered by being around him.

In S2 she even invites Damon into her bedroom alone, to get advice from him about Tyler. If it was rape, why allow him to be alone with you in your house, in your room? And why joke around with him like she did plenty times in S2, shouldn't she be avoiding him? For example,(Pretend I'm a girl) If I got raped I for sure wouldn't be hanging around that person, laughing and joking with him like we're friends or something.

IDK, I just don't see it as rape. I'm not trying to make excuses for him, I just think that all it was, was Damon being a shitty person to her, and treating her bad.What do everyone else think? I welcome all opinions from everyone. It's refreshing to get a fresh perspective from non-DE fans, since I'm normally over at the DE forums.

Andie was also compelled that she was okay that removes her fear of him and pretty much took the agency to decide if she would have continue. I did not feel bad when die for Damon because he treated her like crap so for him to be upset was ridiculous.

Caroline slept with Damon before knowing he was vampire and Damon has implied he was sleeping with Caroline after the first night and they were shown to be intimate after the first night. So she was crying rape for the first time but Elena bringing up the first time which has nothing to do with the times afterwards was foul and quite frankly she should have gotten her teeth kicked in. She knew of circumstances and it really had nothing to do with it. I dislike the writers for trying have Elena downplay what happened because yes she agree but once she started screaming she obviously wanted out.

I also considered Katherine sleeping with Stefan after compulsion rape too.


The show writers have said though that it's not rape, that they hadn't intended it to be rape, and that this is a show about vampires so human moral and rules don't apply. So no, I don't see it as rape.

Then the writer should have educated themselves before they wrote it because that was rape. Also this is show about vampires who interact with humans and as someone posted people want to excuse them from their bad actions by saying their vampires but when someone wants to kill them it all sudden we are suppose to care for said vampires's humanities. Whether you see it rape is not the issue, there are rape victims who watch this show and have voiced that these aspects the show unnerves them just like the subtle racism, tokenism, and downright erasure of history bothers me.

lol, sigh. Agree to disagree then. You see it as rape, I don't. Even before the show writers said it wasn't rape I didn't see it as such so I'll continue not to see it that way. And like I sad before, if he raped her, why invite him to her house, her room alone? She was laughing and joking with him in S2, he didn't seem to bother her at all.
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PostSubject: Re: Episode 4x08 [We'll Always Have Bourbon Street]   Tue Dec 11, 2012 1:24 am

Damonic wrote:
bamonbaby wrote:
First off while I do think both Brothers generally do things because of Elena how they go about it is differently. Damon only does basic things in the name of Elena whereas Stefan generally goes the extra mile for example with Caroline's training that was not done for Elena's benefit, neither when he attempted to help Vicki. He also back in season 1 went to Bonnie's aid that had nothing to do with Elena either. Also Stefan imo has not gone out of his way disrespecting Elena's friends and victimizing them and not apologizing to them afterwards (Stefan has actually apologize for the Abby thing, Damon didn't). So again I don't get why the writers are having Elena thinking her friends would be happy for them, Damon has done absolutely nothing to redeem himself or (imo is what these people really want) sincerely apologize. So she needs to cool it with the just be happy for me ish as she wants it both ways and it can't be.

Damon should had stayed out of that...point blank and he only did it because he was having another tantrum as usual.

Personally I think Stefan stanning is just to make Caroline not look like she has a point about Damon though and because instead stanning for Stefan she should be voicing all those transgressions of the past and recent (cause lest we forget but it seems Elena has Damon just try to murder Matt because of his "feels").

As for her being happy, I wouldn't argue she is more happy with Damon but more carefree but she being unrealistic with how she expects her friends should feel cause let's face it Elena has took it upon herself to dictate other people's relationships (I am going to hold her Jyler friendship blocking over her head from season 3).

As for the sirebond while it explains some plotholes like hw all sudden love for Stefan seems to be diminished and why she would sleep with Damon so fast (it was like two days) and her audacity to move into his crib I too thought this was just a cop out to make the triangle drag on because yes she had feelings for Damon but it has never been shown to be stronger than her one for Damon.

As for the whole rape, I have to always receive counseling from women's center so we can do a seminar with incoming freshmen and training of the situation was anything sexual after the first night (cause the writers even refer to Andie as being like Caroline from season 1) was rape.

Which is exactly my point. Damon has also done things that wasn't for Elena, but the excuse is always made that it was for Elena, therefore doesn't count. Actually Damon apologized to Bonnie about Abbie, not Stefan. Damon has done lots to redeem himself, but if you don't see it I won't argue with you about it. Like I said before, Any and all the characters have the right to hate who they want, just don't blow smoke up one brothers ass and say he's good, conveniently forgetting the shit he's done, while condemning the other brother, conveniently forgetting all he's done for the town and everyone in it. If one brother is bad for Elena, so is the other. They both have done horrible shit, do stuff because of Elena, and kills people.

I actually never said Elena was happy because of Damon. I said because of vampirism she's acting like a teenager, having fun, smiling, etc.

How was her love for Stefan diminished? She spent all up until episode 7 with him, until Stefan broke up with her. Stefan knew back in S3 she had feelings for Damon.

Stefan still does things for Elena though, so if Damon's actions doesn't count because "It was for Elena" then Stefan's doesn't either.

Rape stuff. But The writers have said it wasn't rape, and they are the ones whose in control of the show. So if they say it isn't rape, it isn't rape.

Writers also try to whitewash the Civil War so I take what they say things are suppose to mean with a grain of salt. I going to end the rape discussion as it going to be too much back and forth.
I didn't say Damon hasn't done anything but he hasn't done anything to redeem himself to these people (to redeem him for Elena yes, to these people no). Damon did not apologize and it was not sincere he pretty much said I had no choice (ergo not owning his actions) and sarcastically apologize. That is not an apology. I don't get with why these writers won't allow him to be sincere to anyone but Elena.

I am just talking about how is her love for Damon heighten but not her love for Stefan. It seem diminished because I don't think Elena would have slept with Damon with right away out of respect for her relationship and she doesn't seem bothered by it either.

I didn't say anything about you saying she was more happy. That part was just my general opinion on happy Elena who imo is acting like a Brat.

BTW I currently dislike both brother right now based on the Matt situation because why does he have prove he deserves to live? He doesn't both Salvabores were being douches as they invaded Matt's life not the other way and been hazard on his life. I been on Team "Let's Burn the Salvatore House" down since Abby's neck got snapped and if it were me I would have kicked their family jewels in the dirt. Both Brothers suck but if one held a guy to my head and told me choose I would pick Stefan (I like Damon and it sucks the writers won't take him further than should and while I am team Bamon, I would accept Damon right now).
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PostSubject: Re: Episode 4x08 [We'll Always Have Bourbon Street]   Tue Dec 11, 2012 1:29 am

Damonic wrote:

lol, sigh. Agree to disagree then. You see it as rape, I don't. Even before the show writers said it wasn't rape I didn't see it as such so I'll continue not to see it that way. And like I sad before, if he raped her, why invite him to her house, her room alone? She was laughing and joking with him in S2, he didn't seem to bother her at all.

Damon was invited to her house before she knew he was vampire, it similar to how he got access to Elena's house too. Like I said the first night was not rape, but anytime afterwards was. As last time I check Damon since he friends with her mom seems to stroll into people's homes. When was she joking with him as I barely remember them hanging after he attempted to stake her and other than to discuss the Tyler thing.

Like I said don't care for what writers say, they also say they aren't writing racist things yet what happens on my screen says differently (the time for benefit of a doubt stopped once twittergate happen).
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