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 Episode 4x08 [We'll Always Have Bourbon Street]

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PostSubject: Episode 4x08 [We'll Always Have Bourbon Street]   Thu Dec 06, 2012 12:04 pm

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Discuss tonight's all new episode of The Vampire Diaries.

This is a spoiler friendly zone!

Enjoy!

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PostSubject: Re: Episode 4x08 [We'll Always Have Bourbon Street]   Tue Dec 11, 2012 1:39 am

bamonbaby wrote:
Damonic wrote:

lol, sigh. Agree to disagree then. You see it as rape, I don't. Even before the show writers said it wasn't rape I didn't see it as such so I'll continue not to see it that way. And like I sad before, if he raped her, why invite him to her house, her room alone? She was laughing and joking with him in S2, he didn't seem to bother her at all.

Damon was invited to her house before she knew he was vampire, it similar to how he got access to Elena's house too. Like I said the first night was not rape, but anytime afterwards was. As last time I check Damon since he friends with her mom seems to stroll into people's homes. When was she joking with him as I barely remember them hanging after he attempted to stake her and other than to discuss the Tyler thing.

Like I said don't care for what writers say, they also say they aren't writing racist things yet what happens on my screen says differently (the time for benefit of a doubt stopped once twittergate happen).

I'm talking about S2, when Caroline invites him over to ask his advice about what to do about Tyler.
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PostSubject: Re: Episode 4x08 [We'll Always Have Bourbon Street]   Tue Dec 11, 2012 1:40 am

Damonic wrote:
bamonbaby wrote:
Damonic wrote:

lol, sigh. Agree to disagree then. You see it as rape, I don't. Even before the show writers said it wasn't rape I didn't see it as such so I'll continue not to see it that way. And like I sad before, if he raped her, why invite him to her house, her room alone? She was laughing and joking with him in S2, he didn't seem to bother her at all.

Damon was invited to her house before she knew he was vampire, it similar to how he got access to Elena's house too. Like I said the first night was not rape, but anytime afterwards was. As last time I check Damon since he friends with her mom seems to stroll into people's homes. When was she joking with him as I barely remember them hanging after he attempted to stake her and other than to discuss the Tyler thing.

Like I said don't care for what writers say, they also say they aren't writing racist things yet what happens on my screen says differently (the time for benefit of a doubt stopped once twittergate happen).

I'm talking about S2, when Caroline invites him over to ask his advice about what to do about Tyler.

I recently rewatch season 2 and I remember he barged in trying to figure out what Tyler knew and she was trying to reassure Tyler wasn't a problem.
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PostSubject: Re: Episode 4x08 [We'll Always Have Bourbon Street]   Tue Dec 11, 2012 2:05 am

bamonbaby wrote:
Damonic wrote:
bamonbaby wrote:
First off while I do think both Brothers generally do things because of Elena how they go about it is differently. Damon only does basic things in the name of Elena whereas Stefan generally goes the extra mile for example with Caroline's training that was not done for Elena's benefit, neither when he attempted to help Vicki. He also back in season 1 went to Bonnie's aid that had nothing to do with Elena either. Also Stefan imo has not gone out of his way disrespecting Elena's friends and victimizing them and not apologizing to them afterwards (Stefan has actually apologize for the Abby thing, Damon didn't). So again I don't get why the writers are having Elena thinking her friends would be happy for them, Damon has done absolutely nothing to redeem himself or (imo is what these people really want) sincerely apologize. So she needs to cool it with the just be happy for me ish as she wants it both ways and it can't be.

Damon should had stayed out of that...point blank and he only did it because he was having another tantrum as usual.

Personally I think Stefan stanning is just to make Caroline not look like she has a point about Damon though and because instead stanning for Stefan she should be voicing all those transgressions of the past and recent (cause lest we forget but it seems Elena has Damon just try to murder Matt because of his "feels").

As for her being happy, I wouldn't argue she is more happy with Damon but more carefree but she being unrealistic with how she expects her friends should feel cause let's face it Elena has took it upon herself to dictate other people's relationships (I am going to hold her Jyler friendship blocking over her head from season 3).

As for the sirebond while it explains some plotholes like hw all sudden love for Stefan seems to be diminished and why she would sleep with Damon so fast (it was like two days) and her audacity to move into his crib I too thought this was just a cop out to make the triangle drag on because yes she had feelings for Damon but it has never been shown to be stronger than her one for Damon.

As for the whole rape, I have to always receive counseling from women's center so we can do a seminar with incoming freshmen and training of the situation was anything sexual after the first night (cause the writers even refer to Andie as being like Caroline from season 1) was rape.

Which is exactly my point. Damon has also done things that wasn't for Elena, but the excuse is always made that it was for Elena, therefore doesn't count. Actually Damon apologized to Bonnie about Abbie, not Stefan. Damon has done lots to redeem himself, but if you don't see it I won't argue with you about it. Like I said before, Any and all the characters have the right to hate who they want, just don't blow smoke up one brothers ass and say he's good, conveniently forgetting the shit he's done, while condemning the other brother, conveniently forgetting all he's done for the town and everyone in it. If one brother is bad for Elena, so is the other. They both have done horrible shit, do stuff because of Elena, and kills people.

I actually never said Elena was happy because of Damon. I said because of vampirism she's acting like a teenager, having fun, smiling, etc.

How was her love for Stefan diminished? She spent all up until episode 7 with him, until Stefan broke up with her. Stefan knew back in S3 she had feelings for Damon.

Stefan still does things for Elena though, so if Damon's actions doesn't count because "It was for Elena" then Stefan's doesn't either.

Rape stuff. But The writers have said it wasn't rape, and they are the ones whose in control of the show. So if they say it isn't rape, it isn't rape.

Writers also try to whitewash the Civil War so I take what they say things are suppose to mean with a grain of salt. I going to end the rape discussion as it going to be too much back and forth.
I didn't say Damon hasn't done anything but he hasn't done anything to redeem himself to these people (to redeem him for Elena yes, to these people no). Damon did not apologize and it was not sincere he pretty much said I had no choice (ergo not owning his actions) and sarcastically apologize. That is not an apology. I don't get with why these writers won't allow him to be sincere to anyone but Elena.

I am just talking about how is her love for Damon heighten but not her love for Stefan. It seem diminished because I don't think Elena would have slept with Damon with right away out of respect for her relationship and she doesn't seem bothered by it either.

I didn't say anything about you saying she was more happy. That part was just my general opinion on happy Elena who imo is acting like a Brat.

BTW I currently dislike both brother right now based on the Matt situation because why does he have prove he deserves to live? He doesn't both Salvabores were being douches as they invaded Matt's life not the other way and been hazard on his life. I been on Team "Let's Burn the Salvatore House" down since Abby's neck got snapped and if it were me I would have kicked their family jewels in the dirt. Both Brothers suck but if one held a guy to my head and told me choose I would pick Stefan (I like Damon and it sucks the writers won't take him further than should and while I am team Bamon, I would accept Damon right now).

Him saving their lives, helping them out, etc isn't redeeming himself?

How is Elena being a brat?
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PostSubject: Re: Episode 4x08 [We'll Always Have Bourbon Street]   Tue Dec 11, 2012 2:08 am

bamonbaby wrote:
Damonic wrote:
bamonbaby wrote:
Damonic wrote:

lol, sigh. Agree to disagree then. You see it as rape, I don't. Even before the show writers said it wasn't rape I didn't see it as such so I'll continue not to see it that way. And like I sad before, if he raped her, why invite him to her house, her room alone? She was laughing and joking with him in S2, he didn't seem to bother her at all.

Damon was invited to her house before she knew he was vampire, it similar to how he got access to Elena's house too. Like I said the first night was not rape, but anytime afterwards was. As last time I check Damon since he friends with her mom seems to stroll into people's homes. When was she joking with him as I barely remember them hanging after he attempted to stake her and other than to discuss the Tyler thing.

Like I said don't care for what writers say, they also say they aren't writing racist things yet what happens on my screen says differently (the time for benefit of a doubt stopped once twittergate happen).

I'm talking about S2, when Caroline invites him over to ask his advice about what to do about Tyler.

I recently rewatch season 2 and I remember he barged in trying to figure out what Tyler knew and she was trying to reassure Tyler wasn't a problem.

From what I remember of it, She invited him to figure out what to do about the Tyler situation.
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PostSubject: Re: Episode 4x08 [We'll Always Have Bourbon Street]   Tue Dec 11, 2012 2:28 am

Damonic wrote:


Him saving their lives, helping them out, etc isn't redeeming himself?

How is Elena being a brat?

Damon saved Caroline once because he effed up the plan but had he not messed up. He would care less about Caroline and Tyler. No it not because then he does more harmful ish to them. Like I said what he did to Matt was out of pocket and uncalled for yet he has not apologize which like I said all these people want like Mason is a sincere apology (that to me is redeeming). I have stated Salvatores do more harmful and hurtful things to the gang than actual enemies (like again Klaus is non-threat so them trying to kill him was little late on their part).

Elena's brat because only would she thinks it okay that she can talk about Damon to them and not expect them to say anything back about it. She also slut shame Caroline for being abused... to get her point across and didn't apologize. She pretty much said effed your feelings, I'm still going to talk about Damon to you. Like huh? No. I have been i similar situations and it ridiculous of her to demand that. Especially since she has been known to voice her displeasure over who people hang out with (mainly Jeremy). I think Elena been behaving like a brat all season so it not about which brother. She is the worst friend ever this past episode reaffirm that because I am doubtful she would wanted a girl's night had Damon not went out of town.

Like I said I recall that scene entirely different. so agree to disagree. Season 2 was when i started having issues with characters doing nasty things and not getting consequences for them.
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PostSubject: Re: Episode 4x08 [We'll Always Have Bourbon Street]   Tue Dec 11, 2012 4:02 am

Damonic wrote:
KrayBaby wrote:
Hi, Damonic

Okay, well let me just speak on the Caroline stuff first. Okay, I just watched the beginning of season 1, last night actually. He definitely did NOT rape her. She wanted it to have sex with Damon-fact. However, after he bit her and she screamed, the very next morning she was scared for her life and tried to sneak away while Damon was sleep and he saw her and threw her on the bed and she screams again, we don't know what really happened here, so I can see why some fans call rape because we can assume that he continued sleeping with her after she tried to get away but he compelled her--so he took away her choice. She clearly didn't want to have sex with him any longer after she found out he was a vampire. Personally, I wouldn't call it rape though. He definitely abused her physically, mentally, and emotionally though.

Now, about Stefan stanning, I agree. I haven't been the biggest Caroline fan lately and not because of her Stefan stanning, she has just been annoying me and it really came to a head on 4.06 when she gave up Chris to be killed to save Elena. But the Stefan stuff was really OTT, and so I'm hoping she will calm it down a bit. I understand she hates him and has every right to hate him. True, he did save her twice. But the first time--for me doesn't really count because he only did it for Elena, otherwise I don't believe he would have done it. Now, he definitely did save her from a werewolf bite. At the same time he abused her in season 1 and tried to kill her dad in season 3 and, and he tried to kill her twice--so he owed her that much to save her life, so I can see her POV but they just over did it IMO. Oh, and can I say that Caroline has saved his life as well and Stefan's--when Mason ratted them out to Liz And I don't think anyone in the group really knew about the stuff Stefan did to Elena, she didn't want to talk about Damon to them and so I'm sure she never went into depth about Stefan in all of his "bad boy glory"--and at the same Stefan saved her life and hasn't done anything directly to her that was horrible.
But to answer your question, she was definitely OTT and freaking annoying. But my opinion may be biased a bit because she was already on thin ice with me since 4x06.

Stefan: I like Stefan. But it is a lose/lose situation right now with the sire bond because either way it's taking her choices away. The whole thing is confusing though because DE fans says it's real and SE fans says its fake and I can see valid points from both sides. I will say though, even though Elena said "it's real." At the same time it can be said that's not because right before she said that, Damon said "You know what would make me happy, To know that this entire time that I’ve been completely in love with you that what you actually felt for me was real." Because even though everyone knows Elena had feelings for Damon before she turned--did those human feelings exceed what she felt for Stefan to the point to act like he really doesn't exist anymore? So, honestly it could go either way, I'm just glad I'm not invested in either ship LOL. I'm just going to wait and see how it plays out.

I too, loved girls night. If for anything, to see Bonnie laughing and smiling. It was cute.

I like that Elena isn't so mopey, but again we have to wonder how much of it is the sire bond and how much is real.


Caroline: I don't think he had sex with her again in the morning. I think he just fed from her, but I have nothing to back this up with so I'll concede. I admit he did treat her horrible, emotionally, etc like you said. The stuff about Damon saving her not counting because it was for Elena, Stefan does the same thing, does all the good stuff he do not count either, since it was because of Elena? Stefan doesn't care about anything that doesn't affect him or Elena directly. A lot of the stuff he does, just like Damon, is because of Elena. So if one brothers actions doesn't count because it was for Elena, then Stefan's heroic deeds doesn't count, right? For example, in S2 he agreed with Damon that Caroline had to be killed, but he ultimately agreed with Elena because that's what He always do. So, when he, in that same episode saved Caroline from Damon by stopping him, that doesn't count right? Because he did it for Elena, not because he wanted to, and Damon saving them doesn't count because of the "Because of Elena" excuse.

Trying to kill her Dad: The dude was trying to out him, tried to "Fix" his daughter so I didn't care that Damon tried to kill him. If someone threatened to out or tell my secret I would try to protect myself as well. It wasn't like he did it solely because he hates Caroline or has a vendetta against her, he was protecting himself.

Caroline Stefan stanning: Thank you for agreeing with me that it is OTT. I thought it was just me because I'm Team Damon, but I'm glad even here, people see it as OTT. Even Caroline fans are pissed their favorite character is a mouthpiece for stelena.

Elena being happy. I think it's because she came out of her hallucinations with a clear mind, which alleviated her guilt and let her free herself from her emotional baggage she carries.

Sire bond: DE has has 3 seasons of build up, so I'm pretty sure her feelings aren't because of the sire bond. In this episode it was stated that the sire bond doesn't affect feelings, just actions. But there have been plenty times these 8 episodes where Elena refused to do what Damon told her to do, doing the opposite.

A example people like to use for the sire bond affecting actions is the dress thing from 4x07. I don't think that's valid though, because Elena doesn't actually agree with him. She says the red dress looks pretty, then tells April to wear whichever one she wants. This sire bond sucks if Elena can pick and choose what she want to obey lol.

No, there is no hardcore evidence that they had sex after the first time, but it was kind of implied. But like I said I don't see it as rape. To me the situation was like being in an abusive relationship--which is what it was. Both are horrible but I wouldn't call it rape, but I can see how others would feel that way. The only time I said it was for Elena was when he saved her from the ritual, which it was. Point, blank, he only did it for Elena--to right his wrong. That's why I say that about that incident. The werewolf bite was really noble though cause i would have never done that LOL. I really don't think it's true that Stefan doesn't care about anything that doesn't affect him or Elena though. I am not saying good deeds don't count, but in that situation I think it's important to bring up because it's a difference in doing something for the person you love and how they would feel if something terrible happened to their friend as opposed to doing something because you fucked up and the only way to right that wrong just happens to be to save her friend. You get what I'm saying? So yea Damon has done some terrible things and he has done some good as well, I just hate that specific example of saving Caroline from the ritual as one.

And for Caroline's dad, it's not your opinion that counts though because it's about Caroline--her POV. Her feelings for Damon are from her POV. It's her father, and regardless of what he did to HER, she still loved him and didn't want him dead. And regardless of what he did to her and how crazy and awful it was, he was trying to help her in his own sick,twisted way. So all Caroline knows is that Damon tried to kill her father---it didn't matter why to her.

Elena/sire: About the red dress, well she did just agree to the blue dress and then when Damon goes "Red, right Elena?" and she says "The red is pretty." He says his work is done and leaves, she didn't say anything about April wearing what she likes until Caroline said something and she kind of shook out of it and then said the line about wearing what she likes, so it's all subjective and like I said, it can go either way and the show is doing that purposely so that we question the intentions. I went back and watched the scenes and she did everything that he specifically said. I always hear the one about calling Stefan, but he told her that she should've called Stefan and then about the girl at college, it has been said that Elena's compassion is her biggest trait and I can see why she didn't do that. With Charlotte, she was a bit cuckoo as a human so the sire bond and what was heightened for her was probably different for her. I'm sure they will clear everything up though in upcoming episodes cause it's def confusing.

Oh and I'm not saying that Elena has no feelings for Damon, I said she does, everyone knows that. But what I'm saying, what is really the extent of those feelings because Nandi the witch never said what kind or how much feelings she had that caused the sire bond. All we know is that her feelings were heightened. Does it not seem strange to you that in 4x01 Elena was saying how Stefan was the best choice she ever made and then the break up and boom she is Damon's bed? I don't ship neither DE or SE but that still seemed odd to me. So it's not questioning her feelings for Damon it's questioning how much feelings were there before and how many are from the sire bond/heightened emotions that caused her to not even give Stefan a second thought or consideration? Why no heightened feelings for Stefan? Is it because of the sire bond? It's still so many unanswered questions for either ship to be 100% excited or sad about IMO. The writers know exactly what they are doing--playing both sides. And I truly believe they will continue to do that until the show's end.


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PostSubject: Re: Episode 4x08 [We'll Always Have Bourbon Street]   Tue Dec 11, 2012 4:14 am

Bamonbaby:
Quote :
She is the worst friend ever this past episode reaffirm that because I am doubtful she would wanted a girl's night had Damon not went out of town


Elena hasn't been a great friend lately, but she did not know Damon was going out of town prior to inviting the girls over. Damon didn't find out about the sire bond, therefore, going to New Orleans until after Elena had left for school.

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PostSubject: Re: Episode 4x08 [We'll Always Have Bourbon Street]   Tue Dec 11, 2012 5:47 am

KrayBaby wrote:
Bamonbaby:
Quote :
She is the worst friend ever this past episode reaffirm that because I am doubtful she would wanted a girl's night had Damon not went out of town


Elena hasn't been a great friend lately, but she did not know Damon was going out of town prior to inviting the girls over. Damon didn't find out about the sire bond, therefore, going to New Orleans until after Elena had left for school.

Then writers need to stop being convenient and stand by that statement. The whole girls night just irk me in general as we all know when the boys around Elena really could care less about her "girls". You said lately it been like that since season 2. Bonnie's reappearance after her lame reason to be absent from 4x07 further irked me and I am only youtube clips.

BTW if this was the reverse with Elena jumping right into bed with Stefan after ended it with Damon, he be throwing a huge tantrum. So yeah DE sex right away gets a big "?" and I actually do forgive Damon because he waited a year for it (or 9 months?, god I hate this show's timeline.).
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PostSubject: Re: Episode 4x08 [We'll Always Have Bourbon Street]   Tue Dec 11, 2012 1:14 pm

Well, that's my opinion. I don't think Elena has been a good friend since season 3--that's just how I perceived the show. I agree that the reason Bonnie wasn't in the show was a lame reason, but Bonnie won't be in every episode just like none of the other supporting cast members are, at least Bonnie is mentioned when she isn't in the episode because no one else is mentioned when they aren't on the show or told why they aren't in an episode.

As for Damon and Elena sex, I still think it was tasteless. She had broken up with Stefan 2 days before and then come to his house and make him uncomfortable enough so that he has to leave his own home so that DE sex could happen. I didn't like how it was done TBH.

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PostSubject: Re: Episode 4x08 [We'll Always Have Bourbon Street]   Tue Dec 11, 2012 1:41 pm

KrayBaby wrote:
Well, that's my opinion. I don't think Elena has been a good friend since season 3--that's just how I perceived the show. I agree that the reason Bonnie wasn't in the show was a lame reason, but Bonnie won't be in every episode just like none of the other supporting cast members are, at least Bonnie is mentioned when she isn't in the episode because no one else is mentioned when they aren't on the show or told why they aren't in an episode.

As for Damon and Elena sex, I still think it was tasteless. She had broken up with Stefan 2 days before and then come to his house and make him uncomfortable enough so that he has to leave his own home so that DE sex could happen. I didn't like how it was done TBH.

while you have point there are characters who appear more than Bonnie that don't move the plot along yet the writers find some way to insert them into the storylines. Bonnie the the most important character after the trio in the books and I find it weird she appears less than majority of the supporting characters who for the most part don't do anything. It didn't make sense that April a recurring character has had more screentime and most people don't care about her (I won't get into that she was technically inelligible for MMF based on when they talk about it in season 1) and while I like Caroline she doesn't really move plot forward she just there to be a love interests. I used to make excuses for the writers but no where in the contract are the actors limited the amount of appearances. Bonnie being mention has something to do with the fans calling them out how it never makes sense that she doesn't appear after doing big things. That episode was the first time we were given excuse since season 1. It also makes no sense how Bonnie's storyline takes place off screen.
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PostSubject: Re: Episode 4x08 [We'll Always Have Bourbon Street]   Tue Dec 11, 2012 4:28 pm

bamonbaby wrote:
KrayBaby wrote:
Well, that's my opinion. I don't think Elena has been a good friend since season 3--that's just how I perceived the show. I agree that the reason Bonnie wasn't in the show was a lame reason, but Bonnie won't be in every episode just like none of the other supporting cast members are, at least Bonnie is mentioned when she isn't in the episode because no one else is mentioned when they aren't on the show or told why they aren't in an episode.

As for Damon and Elena sex, I still think it was tasteless. She had broken up with Stefan 2 days before and then come to his house and make him uncomfortable enough so that he has to leave his own home so that DE sex could happen. I didn't like how it was done TBH.

while you have point there are characters who appear more than Bonnie that don't move the plot along yet the writers find some way to insert them into the storylines. Bonnie the the most important character after the trio in the books and I find it weird she appears less than majority of the supporting characters who for the most part don't do anything. It didn't make sense that April a recurring character has had more screentime and most people don't care about her (I won't get into that she was technically inelligible for MMF based on when they talk about it in season 1) and while I like Caroline she doesn't really move plot forward she just there to be a love interests. I used to make excuses for the writers but no where in the contract are the actors limited the amount of appearances. Bonnie being mention has something to do with the fans calling them out how it never makes sense that she doesn't appear after doing big things. That episode was the first time we were given excuse since season 1. It also makes no sense how Bonnie's storyline takes place off screen.

I actually agree with you about Bonnie. If they really wanted to, they could have her in more episodes. April is pretty useless and they still have her in episodes taking up space. I also agree about Caroline, besides her Stefan stanning what does she do to actually move the plot forward? I really hope Bonnie's sl with Shane and expression gets moved to the forefront soon, because I really like her a lot.
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PostSubject: Re: Episode 4x08 [We'll Always Have Bourbon Street]   Tue Dec 11, 2012 5:15 pm

KrayBaby wrote:
Damonic wrote:
KrayBaby wrote:
Hi, Damonic

Okay, well let me just speak on the Caroline stuff first. Okay, I just watched the beginning of season 1, last night actually. He definitely did NOT rape her. She wanted it to have sex with Damon-fact. However, after he bit her and she screamed, the very next morning she was scared for her life and tried to sneak away while Damon was sleep and he saw her and threw her on the bed and she screams again, we don't know what really happened here, so I can see why some fans call rape because we can assume that he continued sleeping with her after she tried to get away but he compelled her--so he took away her choice. She clearly didn't want to have sex with him any longer after she found out he was a vampire. Personally, I wouldn't call it rape though. He definitely abused her physically, mentally, and emotionally though.

Now, about Stefan stanning, I agree. I haven't been the biggest Caroline fan lately and not because of her Stefan stanning, she has just been annoying me and it really came to a head on 4.06 when she gave up Chris to be killed to save Elena. But the Stefan stuff was really OTT, and so I'm hoping she will calm it down a bit. I understand she hates him and has every right to hate him. True, he did save her twice. But the first time--for me doesn't really count because he only did it for Elena, otherwise I don't believe he would have done it. Now, he definitely did save her from a werewolf bite. At the same time he abused her in season 1 and tried to kill her dad in season 3 and, and he tried to kill her twice--so he owed her that much to save her life, so I can see her POV but they just over did it IMO. Oh, and can I say that Caroline has saved his life as well and Stefan's--when Mason ratted them out to Liz And I don't think anyone in the group really knew about the stuff Stefan did to Elena, she didn't want to talk about Damon to them and so I'm sure she never went into depth about Stefan in all of his "bad boy glory"--and at the same Stefan saved her life and hasn't done anything directly to her that was horrible.
But to answer your question, she was definitely OTT and freaking annoying. But my opinion may be biased a bit because she was already on thin ice with me since 4x06.

Stefan: I like Stefan. But it is a lose/lose situation right now with the sire bond because either way it's taking her choices away. The whole thing is confusing though because DE fans says it's real and SE fans says its fake and I can see valid points from both sides. I will say though, even though Elena said "it's real." At the same time it can be said that's not because right before she said that, Damon said "You know what would make me happy, To know that this entire time that I’ve been completely in love with you that what you actually felt for me was real." Because even though everyone knows Elena had feelings for Damon before she turned--did those human feelings exceed what she felt for Stefan to the point to act like he really doesn't exist anymore? So, honestly it could go either way, I'm just glad I'm not invested in either ship LOL. I'm just going to wait and see how it plays out.

I too, loved girls night. If for anything, to see Bonnie laughing and smiling. It was cute.

I like that Elena isn't so mopey, but again we have to wonder how much of it is the sire bond and how much is real.


Caroline: I don't think he had sex with her again in the morning. I think he just fed from her, but I have nothing to back this up with so I'll concede. I admit he did treat her horrible, emotionally, etc like you said. The stuff about Damon saving her not counting because it was for Elena, Stefan does the same thing, does all the good stuff he do not count either, since it was because of Elena? Stefan doesn't care about anything that doesn't affect him or Elena directly. A lot of the stuff he does, just like Damon, is because of Elena. So if one brothers actions doesn't count because it was for Elena, then Stefan's heroic deeds doesn't count, right? For example, in S2 he agreed with Damon that Caroline had to be killed, but he ultimately agreed with Elena because that's what He always do. So, when he, in that same episode saved Caroline from Damon by stopping him, that doesn't count right? Because he did it for Elena, not because he wanted to, and Damon saving them doesn't count because of the "Because of Elena" excuse.

Trying to kill her Dad: The dude was trying to out him, tried to "Fix" his daughter so I didn't care that Damon tried to kill him. If someone threatened to out or tell my secret I would try to protect myself as well. It wasn't like he did it solely because he hates Caroline or has a vendetta against her, he was protecting himself.

Caroline Stefan stanning: Thank you for agreeing with me that it is OTT. I thought it was just me because I'm Team Damon, but I'm glad even here, people see it as OTT. Even Caroline fans are pissed their favorite character is a mouthpiece for stelena.

Elena being happy. I think it's because she came out of her hallucinations with a clear mind, which alleviated her guilt and let her free herself from her emotional baggage she carries.

Sire bond: DE has has 3 seasons of build up, so I'm pretty sure her feelings aren't because of the sire bond. In this episode it was stated that the sire bond doesn't affect feelings, just actions. But there have been plenty times these 8 episodes where Elena refused to do what Damon told her to do, doing the opposite.

A example people like to use for the sire bond affecting actions is the dress thing from 4x07. I don't think that's valid though, because Elena doesn't actually agree with him. She says the red dress looks pretty, then tells April to wear whichever one she wants. This sire bond sucks if Elena can pick and choose what she want to obey lol.

No, there is no hardcore evidence that they had sex after the first time, but it was kind of implied. But like I said I don't see it as rape. To me the situation was like being in an abusive relationship--which is what it was. Both are horrible but I wouldn't call it rape, but I can see how others would feel that way. The only time I said it was for Elena was when he saved her from the ritual, which it was. Point, blank, he only did it for Elena--to right his wrong. That's why I say that about that incident. The werewolf bite was really noble though cause i would have never done that LOL. I really don't think it's true that Stefan doesn't care about anything that doesn't affect him or Elena though. I am not saying good deeds don't count, but in that situation I think it's important to bring up because it's a difference in doing something for the person you love and how they would feel if something terrible happened to their friend as opposed to doing something because you fucked up and the only way to right that wrong just happens to be to save her friend. You get what I'm saying? So yea Damon has done some terrible things and he has done some good as well, I just hate that specific example of saving Caroline from the ritual as one.

And for Caroline's dad, it's not your opinion that counts though because it's about Caroline--her POV. Her feelings for Damon are from her POV. It's her father, and regardless of what he did to HER, she still loved him and didn't want him dead. And regardless of what he did to her and how crazy and awful it was, he was trying to help her in his own sick,twisted way. So all Caroline knows is that Damon tried to kill her father---it didn't matter why to her.

Elena/sire: About the red dress, well she did just agree to the blue dress and then when Damon goes "Red, right Elena?" and she says "The red is pretty." He says his work is done and leaves, she didn't say anything about April wearing what she likes until Caroline said something and she kind of shook out of it and then said the line about wearing what she likes, so it's all subjective and like I said, it can go either way and the show is doing that purposely so that we question the intentions. I went back and watched the scenes and she did everything that he specifically said. I always hear the one about calling Stefan, but he told her that she should've called Stefan and then about the girl at college, it has been said that Elena's compassion is her biggest trait and I can see why she didn't do that. With Charlotte, she was a bit cuckoo as a human so the sire bond and what was heightened for her was probably different for her. I'm sure they will clear everything up though in upcoming episodes cause it's def confusing.

Oh and I'm not saying that Elena has no feelings for Damon, I said she does, everyone knows that. But what I'm saying, what is really the extent of those feelings because Nandi the witch never said what kind or how much feelings she had that caused the sire bond. All we know is that her feelings were heightened. Does it not seem strange to you that in 4x01 Elena was saying how Stefan was the best choice she ever made and then the break up and boom she is Damon's bed? I don't ship neither DE or SE but that still seemed odd to me. So it's not questioning her feelings for Damon it's questioning how much feelings were there before and how many are from the sire bond/heightened emotions that caused her to not even give Stefan a second thought or consideration? Why no heightened feelings for Stefan? Is it because of the sire bond? It's still so many unanswered questions for either ship to be 100% excited or sad about IMO. The writers know exactly what they are doing--playing both sides. And I truly believe they will continue to do that until the show's end.


I still think Damon was justified in trying to kill her dad. Dude was basically trying to tell people he was a vampire, which would have ended badly. When someone threatens to tell a secret you have or tell something you don't want to get out, you don't just sit back and take it, you fight, and that's what Damon did. I can see how Caroline would be pissed though so I do see your point.

I'm done with the rape stuff. If people still want to yell rape, even though the show has said it wasn't rape, and it was disproven this episode, then that's on them.

The dress thing: But she didn't actually agree with Damon! She said it's pretty! She didn't say you should wear the red dress right after Damon was making his case, all she said was it was pretty. Then she told April to wear whichever one she wanted. There are even more examples of Elena not doing whatever he says int he other episodes.

Damon tells her not to go after Connor, he doesn't even want her to be near him, but Elena tells him she's just as dangerous as Connor. Why didn't she listen and not go after him?

Damon tells her to kill off when she gets the opportunity. She stops though, and it isn't until Connor stabs her that she actually kills him.

Damon tells her to feed off the girl on the campus grounds, but she doesn't because the girl has a daughter.

Damon tells her to call Stefan several times but she doesn't listen to him.

The point I'm trying to make is Stefan does stuff because of Elena. So does Damon. So does Bonnie. Everyone does. Why is it only when Damon saves her friends just because it's what Elena would want, why is it the argument is brought up that it doesn't count because he did it for Elena? Stefan does the same things, he saves her friends because it's what Elena wants, so why doesn't his heroic deeds not count?

The example I used before, him saving Caroline because he sided with Elena, not because he wanted to is a good example. He agreed with Damon that Caroline should die, but sided with Elena because that's what he do. Then later, him being there for Caroline and helping her shouldn't count by your logic right, because the deed was ultimately done for Elena. Right?

The Damon saving Caroline thing is just like the Stefan thing. He saved her and Tyler from the sacrifice to buy Elena more time. Then he took a fatal werewolf bite for her after he saved her for Elena. He didn't have to take the bite, just like Stefan didn't have to help Caroline after he saved her from Damon. Neither counts right?

The sex thing: What about 3x19? If Jeremy hadn't interrupted them, things would have gone farther than they had.

The bestest decision ever thing, she still stuck by Stefan until he broke up with her. She was still very much all about Stefan those episodes, she just couldn't get the help she needed from him, because of his blood issues and control. She was still trying to make it work up until she found out he was lying to her. So I don't see how her feelings for him wasn't heightened or whatever.

Jumping into bed right away with Damon: Elena's hallucinations allowed her to face and overcome her fears, guilt, emotional baggage, etc. We all know that Damon was a big part of that guilt, because of how she'll be perceived, and what that would say about her if she act on her feelings for the "Bad Boy", for Stefan brother. So after her hallucinations she faced up to those fears and didn't let them bother her anymore. That's how I perceive it, and why she jumped into bed with Damon. Because she no longer was afraid to admit she has some type of feelings for him, and to act on them. I'd like your opinion on this, since this is how I interpret her hallucinations and the way she acted when she woke up after being saved by Damon.
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PostSubject: Re: Episode 4x08 [We'll Always Have Bourbon Street]   Tue Dec 11, 2012 9:47 pm

This debate is going nowhere. Obviously, you feel how you feel and you aren't going to break away from that.

What I'm saying with Caroline is that from her POV Damon has done shitty things to her so she hates him and would prefer if her friend didn't date him, while Stefan has not done anything directly to Caroline so she thinks he is the better choice. I'm not saying she is wrong or right--but you have to view it from her POV.

The sire bond thing--well Damon never said directly to call Stefan he said you should HAVE--past tense. And Stefan walked in 2 seconds later anyway, so a phone call wasn't needed. I think with the sire bond that Elena's compassion plays a big part of how she reacts to what Damon says. Which would explain the Connor thing--when Jeremy was in more danger she was going through with it and the girl at college her compassion for the girl's family. As for the dress, no she didn't directly agree with him but she was influenced by what he said. No denying that.That's JMHO though, and I don't try to force it on anyone as fact because I'd rather see how it plays out on screen because I'm sure that we will find out more about it in upcoming episodes.

I don't think you are understanding what I'm saying about the heroic acts. It's one thing to do it for someone. But Damon fucked up and only went to save Elena because he couldn't bare the thought of Elena hating him. Same as Stefan and this cure business with Jeremy--he didn't save her so now he is paying the price and has turned Jeremy into a crazy vampire hunter. So, no that stuff isn't heroic to me because it's being done because they made a shitty choice and was trying to get themselves out of it so they wouldn't feel the guilt. Again, it's MY opinion on those issues and am not trying to get you to agree, just to understand my POV.

If you don't see that her feelings for Stefan weren't heightened, then clearly you are just being biased. And sorry hallucination or not you don't go have sex with your ex's brother at your ex's house 2 days after you break up. It makes no sense and if you can't see how OOC that is then, I just don't know what else to say.


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PostSubject: Re: Episode 4x08 [We'll Always Have Bourbon Street]   Wed Dec 12, 2012 12:11 am

KrayBaby wrote:
This debate is going nowhere. Obviously, you feel how you feel and you aren't going to break away from that.

What I'm saying with Caroline is that from her POV Damon has done shitty things to her so she hates him and would prefer if her friend didn't date him, while Stefan has not done anything directly to Caroline so she thinks he is the better choice. I'm not saying she is wrong or right--but you have to view it from her POV.

The sire bond thing--well Damon never said directly to call Stefan he said you should HAVE--past tense. And Stefan walked in 2 seconds later anyway, so a phone call wasn't needed. I think with the sire bond that Elena's compassion plays a big part of how she reacts to what Damon says. Which would explain the Connor thing--when Jeremy was in more danger she was going through with it and the girl at college her compassion for the girl's family. As for the dress, no she didn't directly agree with him but she was influenced by what he said. No denying that.That's JMHO though, and I don't try to force it on anyone as fact because I'd rather see how it plays out on screen because I'm sure that we will find out more about it in upcoming episodes.

I don't think you are understanding what I'm saying about the heroic acts. It's one thing to do it for someone. But Damon fucked up and only went to save Elena because he couldn't bare the thought of Elena hating him. Same as Stefan and this cure business with Jeremy--he didn't save her so now he is paying the price and has turned Jeremy into a crazy vampire hunter. So, no that stuff isn't heroic to me because it's being done because they made a shitty choice and was trying to get themselves out of it so they wouldn't feel the guilt. Again, it's MY opinion on those issues and am not trying to get you to agree, just to understand my POV.

If you don't see that her feelings for Stefan weren't heightened, then clearly you are just being biased. And sorry hallucination or not you don't go have sex with your ex's brother at your ex's house 2 days after you break up. It makes no sense and if you can't see how OOC that is then, I just don't know what else to say.


Seriously? Come on now. People make it seem like Elena turned and didn't care at all about Stefan or something. If her feelings wasn't heightened as well, then why stick with him? For shits and giggles? Just because? I honestly don't get why people say Elena is OOC. Exactly how is she OOC? Because she's no longer suicidal? Mopey? Smiles more? She was still all about Stefan up until they broke up. She still tried to make it work it Stefan. She only stopped trusting him after he lied to her. She only went to Damon when she needed help with keeping down blood. Damon wasn't even her first choice to call anyway, she called Caroline first and she didn't answer. Or is it because her feelings for Stefan are supposed to be stronger than what she has for Damon? Seriously, tell me how I'm biased that I can't see how OOC Elena is and how her feelings for Stefan wasn't heightened.

The saving Caroline thing, he has saved her more than that time I mentioned. I used it as a example. He's saved them all a bunch of times, just like Stefan. All I said was people like to use the excuse he did it for Elena so it doesn't count, when Stefan does as well.

Actually I watched it again and he does say you should call Stefan, not past tense. But whatever, if the sire bond affects her actions but her compassion cancels it out, it's a sucky ass sire bond then.

Jumping into bed with Damon: I honestly don't even care. I think if it wasn't for the sire bond heightening her feelings for him even more, she wouldn't have jumped into bed with him right away like she did. There would have at least been a time lapse before she went there, but she would have went there because she was set free from her guilt about her feeling for him.
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PostSubject: Re: Episode 4x08 [We'll Always Have Bourbon Street]   Wed Dec 12, 2012 2:53 am

It seems like you are taking what I'm saying and only getting bits and pieces of it.

I never said she didn't still care for him after she turned, she even said she still loves Caroline. This is the thing as a human it was always Stefan and her last human moments were her saying how choosing him was the best choice she ever made and devoting her love to him. So, yea she stuck with him for a few episodes because that is the choice she made and it seemed like she was holding on to that. If her feelings were heightened for Stefan then after they broke up she would have been more considerate and that's JMO and from what I have saw the opinion of many others.

Jumping into bed with Damon- That's my point exactly, as a human Elena would have never done that. Would it had happened eventually? Definitely, but not 2 days after breaking up with her boyfriend and that in itself is OOC for her. Along with the low blow about sleeping with Damon after knowing what he did to her afterwards--OOC. Assuming that Jeremy was off in the woods drunk in 4x07, when he hasn't been that way since season 1/2--OOC. So, yes Elena has had OOC moments and it has nothing to do with her smiling and being happy.

And only said you were biased about not seeing how her feelings for Stefan doesn't appear to be heightened. Not about the OOC.

And again about Caroline- You are still not getting it. I said his other acts were heroic,I said it was several times. It was that particular time to ME that I felt like it wasn't for the reasons I stated in my previous post. Yea, Damon has saved people, but guess what most of those same people have saved his ass too!

And I like Damon and I like Stefan but I get so tired of the bashing and hate when neither brother is better than the other because they have both done great, selfless things and both have definitely done horrible, selfless things. I just wish more people could just enjoy the show and not worry about which brother is the best or which sex was the hottest. It's one thing to have your faves and to not like characters, but I wish some fans would just enjoy the show more. And I'm not talking about you personally, but I have seen some crazy stuff go on in this fandom.

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PostSubject: Re: Episode 4x08 [We'll Always Have Bourbon Street]   Wed Dec 12, 2012 8:53 pm

KrayBaby wrote:
It seems like you are taking what I'm saying and only getting bits and pieces of it.

I never said she didn't still care for him after she turned, she even said she still loves Caroline. This is the thing as a human it was always Stefan and her last human moments were her saying how choosing him was the best choice she ever made and devoting her love to him. So, yea she stuck with him for a few episodes because that is the choice she made and it seemed like she was holding on to that. If her feelings were heightened for Stefan then after they broke up she would have been more considerate and that's JMO and from what I have saw the opinion of many others.

Jumping into bed with Damon- That's my point exactly, as a human Elena would have never done that. Would it had happened eventually? Definitely, but not 2 days after breaking up with her boyfriend and that in itself is OOC for her. Along with the low blow about sleeping with Damon after knowing what he did to her afterwards--OOC. Assuming that Jeremy was off in the woods drunk in 4x07, when he hasn't been that way since season 1/2--OOC. So, yes Elena has had OOC moments and it has nothing to do with her smiling and being happy.

And only said you were biased about not seeing how her feelings for Stefan doesn't appear to be heightened. Not about the OOC.

And again about Caroline- You are still not getting it. I said his other acts were heroic,I said it was several times. It was that particular time to ME that I felt like it wasn't for the reasons I stated in my previous post. Yea, Damon has saved people, but guess what most of those same people have saved his ass too!

And I like Damon and I like Stefan but I get so tired of the bashing and hate when neither brother is better than the other because they have both done great, selfless things and both have definitely done horrible, selfless things. I just wish more people could just enjoy the show and not worry about which brother is the best or which sex was the hottest. It's one thing to have your faves and to not like characters, but I wish some fans would just enjoy the show more. And I'm not talking about you personally, but I have seen some crazy stuff go on in this fandom.

lol I'm sorry if I come off as a crazy DE fan. If I am, It's not my intent so sorry. I agree with you that Elena jumped into bed with Damon too fast, but I don't agree with you because of Stefan, since I hate the guy, but because it makes Damon seem like a rebound, which was something I didn't want. I mean DE'ers have been waiting awhile for them to get together, what's a few more episodes?

The sire bond crap I actually hated when I first found out about it. I seriously think it's contrived. Like for example, her blood issues. Elena wasn't even in the room when Stefan and Damon argured about Ab vs feeding from the vein, so how did it work? And I'm sure he didn't want her to die, so once he took on the mission to help her keep blood down, why didn't it fix itself then? I'm pretty sure her being alive and able to drink the blood bag he gave her would have made him happy. So I honestly don't get the sire bond stuff. Plus all the other times she didn't listen to him, and I think they could have found another way to give D/E angst, but what do I know, I'm not a writer.

I tend to not really care or even pay attention to Stefan or SE scenes, so yes, I probably am biased. Can you tell me why you think her feelings for him wasn't heightened?

Caroline and Elena arguments I didn't think Elena was OOC, but once again I hate Caroline so biased. Her hating Damon yet kissing Stefan's ass isn't the only reason I hate her though. Because Like I said before, she can hate whomever she wants, I don't care. Her hypocrisy and stanning gets me. I first started hating her when she became a perfect vampire around S2. I liked her as human, insecurities and all. It made me root for her when she said Elena doesn't try but still gets the guys, but she tries so hard and can't win. It made me want her to beat Elena at their game, and made me sympathize with her. It all went away when she became a vampire, and I couldn't root for her anymore.

Anyway, I'm sorry if I came off as a closed-mind crazy DE fan, wasn't my intention.
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PostSubject: Re: Episode 4x08 [We'll Always Have Bourbon Street]   Wed Dec 12, 2012 10:35 pm

Lol just a bit, but it's okay. I have seen wayyy worse from SE and DE. I just was getting a bit frustrated because I felt you weren't understanding what I was saying.

But yea, it did make Damon look like a rebound. It was so rushed that it was a bit awkward for me and I was looking forward to the DE portion of the triangle and they hit us with the sire bond and I was just like ugh, no thanks. But I do think DE will come out stronger because of it. I'm ready for the sire bond to end though, so I can see how the DE dynamic is as boyfriend/girlfriend without making me question it.

I think with the blood bag, it was a scene when Stefan and Elena were at the BH with Damon right before they went to hung bunnies and Elena said to Damon--"you're still not on board with the animal blood," and Damon said, "Nope." He said, "you're a vampire Elena, be a vampire." and then "Vampires eat people, it's part of the natural food pyramid. Trust me, you're going to be miserable." So he pretty much did cause the issues, but you can't blame him because he didn't know! But with this sire bond, I think we will get more answers in tomorrow's episode, cause like you said it has loop holes. I think maybe who the person was affects how they respond to a sire bond? I don't know it's weird lol.

And lol, yea I will tell you. For me I could tell that it wasn't going to end well with SE and fast. To me it didn't seem any different than when she was a human. If her feelings was heightened for Stefan as well, then to me she would have given it at least a second thought. That "I know." when Stefan broke up with her was kind of like an ouch moment to me. She slept with Damon 2 days later and didn't even care that she was putting Stefan out of his house. I can understand her wanting to explore her feelings for Damon, but as hard as she fought for Stefan in season 3 you would think that she would have fought harder for him when he broke up with her or at least show more compassion to him. I don't know, it just seems weird between them now. The only thing I can think of is that maybe the sire bond makes her feelings stand out over and beyond her love for Stefan?

I say that with Caroline was OOC because Elena is usually more compassionate so even if she thought Caroline was being slutty, I can't see her throwing it in her face like that. And I agree, Caroline is a hypocrite because Klaus is the more horrible person on the show that we know of and she is falling for him. So although I can understand her hate for Damon because it is justified, but she should feel the same if not hate Klaus more. I too have not been liking Caroline much this season and it was before her Stefan stanning. I liked season 1 Caroline and loved season 3 Caroline, I was indifferent to her in season 3 and season 4 I'm slowly starting to dislike her.

But the great thing about this show is that it's up for interpretation, people view the show in so many different ways and of course we are always going to be a bit more biased to our favorite characters and ships. I found that it's easier to just enjoy the show first and then ships/characters because it's more enjoyable that way. I can see it from both sides of the triangle and genuinely enjoy aspects of both, but at the same time I can see why some hate Damon and love Stefan and love Damon and hate Stefan. I think both of the brothers journey is to find that balance because they are both good and bad, but Damon showed his bad more than good and Stefan showed his good more than bad. Once they find a middle ground with who they are, they will both become more likable character to both ships, at least I think so lol. Because now to me, it seems like they are making Damon too good and Stefan too bad. Like they have switched positions lol.

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PostSubject: Re: Episode 4x08 [We'll Always Have Bourbon Street]   Sun Dec 23, 2012 3:11 pm

KrayBaby wrote:
Lol just a bit, but it's okay. I have seen wayyy worse from SE and DE. I just was getting a bit frustrated because I felt you weren't understanding what I was saying.

But yea, it did make Damon look like a rebound. It was so rushed that it was a bit awkward for me and I was looking forward to the DE portion of the triangle and they hit us with the sire bond and I was just like ugh, no thanks. But I do think DE will come out stronger because of it. I'm ready for the sire bond to end though, so I can see how the DE dynamic is as boyfriend/girlfriend without making me question it.

I think with the blood bag, it was a scene when Stefan and Elena were at the BH with Damon right before they went to hung bunnies and Elena said to Damon--"you're still not on board with the animal blood," and Damon said, "Nope." He said, "you're a vampire Elena, be a vampire." and then "Vampires eat people, it's part of the natural food pyramid. Trust me, you're going to be miserable." So he pretty much did cause the issues, but you can't blame him because he didn't know! But with this sire bond, I think we will get more answers in tomorrow's episode, cause like you said it has loop holes. I think maybe who the person was affects how they respond to a sire bond? I don't know it's weird lol.

And lol, yea I will tell you. For me I could tell that it wasn't going to end well with SE and fast. To me it didn't seem any different than when she was a human. If her feelings was heightened for Stefan as well, then to me she would have given it at least a second thought. That "I know." when Stefan broke up with her was kind of like an ouch moment to me. She slept with Damon 2 days later and didn't even care that she was putting Stefan out of his house. I can understand her wanting to explore her feelings for Damon, but as hard as she fought for Stefan in season 3 you would think that she would have fought harder for him when he broke up with her or at least show more compassion to him. I don't know, it just seems weird between them now. The only thing I can think of is that maybe the sire bond makes her feelings stand out over and beyond her love for Stefan?

I say that with Caroline was OOC because Elena is usually more compassionate so even if she thought Caroline was being slutty, I can't see her throwing it in her face like that. And I agree, Caroline is a hypocrite because Klaus is the more horrible person on the show that we know of and she is falling for him. So although I can understand her hate for Damon because it is justified, but she should feel the same if not hate Klaus more. I too have not been liking Caroline much this season and it was before her Stefan stanning. I liked season 1 Caroline and loved season 3 Caroline, I was indifferent to her in season 3 and season 4 I'm slowly starting to dislike her.

But the great thing about this show is that it's up for interpretation, people view the show in so many different ways and of course we are always going to be a bit more biased to our favorite characters and ships. I found that it's easier to just enjoy the show first and then ships/characters because it's more enjoyable that way. I can see it from both sides of the triangle and genuinely enjoy aspects of both, but at the same time I can see why some hate Damon and love Stefan and love Damon and hate Stefan. I think both of the brothers journey is to find that balance because they are both good and bad, but Damon showed his bad more than good and Stefan showed his good more than bad. Once they find a middle ground with who they are, they will both become more likable character to both ships, at least I think so lol. Because now to me, it seems like they are making Damon too good and Stefan too bad. Like they have switched positions lol.


Yeah, I just want this sire bond sl over with lol. I didn't even like it in the books and thought it was terrible, and I feel the same for the show using it. BTW, have you seen the gifset on tumblr where Caroline drinks a blood bag then spits it out like Elena did? I don't know what to make of that, but I think it's a lot better than Damon is the cause of her blood issues. It was in S2 when Caroline was in the hospital and tried to drink from the blood bag. She spit it out much the same way as Elena did outside the church in 4x02.
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PostSubject: Re: Episode 4x08 [We'll Always Have Bourbon Street]   Sun Dec 30, 2012 11:08 am

Yea, I remember that about Caroline. I think that had to do with the fact Caroline didn't know what was happening to her. One minute she is normal and the next she is craving blood, and when she drinks from the blood bag, it's just like "YUCK why the heck am I drinking blood--but wait I actually love it." Elena's issues were definitely on Damon. I really don't think one has anything to do with the other. I mean Caroline immediately went to the bag and drunk some more. I honestly, sometimes think some of us fans put way too much thought into the show by overanalyzing every little detail lol.

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PostSubject: Re: Episode 4x08 [We'll Always Have Bourbon Street]   Wed Jan 02, 2013 3:57 am



Damon was pathetic the way he was acting just when I think JP could not make Damon anymore pathetic she goes and tops her self . So Damon has got Elena like this perfect little doll that he has talking in to what he wants her to be Katherine 2.0 Lite with some upgrades like" LOVING " only him out of the blue what Happen to the feelings Elena had for Stefan ? HOW COME THEY DID NOT GET MAGNIFY?

Well Damon has been telling Elena from when she became a Vamp ( which Elena is a Vamp and still can not take care of her self ) That she was not like Stefan Anymore that she was just like Him and he told her is over and over so much so that she wanted to kill her self the 1st time but Stefan talk her out of it and then wanted to find a Un-do Vamp spell. But anyway Damon by saying that to Elena magnify her Caring about him the had Elena Cloak all her feelings for Stefan . so now Elena does what ever she thinks Damon want or would want for her to do and all of this shows just how Fake Damon & Elena really are .



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PostSubject: Re: Episode 4x08 [We'll Always Have Bourbon Street]   Sat Jan 05, 2013 8:16 pm

ginbell wrote:


Damon was pathetic the way he was acting just when I think JP could not make Damon anymore pathetic she goes and tops her self . So Damon has got Elena like this perfect little doll that he has talking in to what he wants her to be Katherine 2.0 Lite with some upgrades like" LOVING " only him out of the blue what Happen to the feelings Elena had for Stefan ? HOW COME THEY DID NOT GET MAGNIFY?

Well Damon has been telling Elena from when she became a Vamp ( which Elena is a Vamp and still can not take care of her self ) That she was not like Stefan Anymore that she was just like Him and he told her is over and over so much so that she wanted to kill her self the 1st time but Stefan talk her out of it and then wanted to find a Un-do Vamp spell. But anyway Damon by saying that to Elena magnify her Caring about him the had Elena Cloak all her feelings for Stefan . so now Elena does what ever she thinks Damon want or would want for her to do and all of this shows just how Fake Damon & Elena really are .



I don't think Elena was being a doll or whatever. She has showed she can think on her own, act on her own, and make her own decisions on several occasions, in several episodes. As for her Stefan feels, I think that'll probably be explained when this sire bond crap is over. Idk, wouldn't consuming feelings win out on any other feelings? And she has been repressing her Damon feelings ever since she was human, and she can't do it now because everything is heightened and she's a vampire. But that still doesn't really explain why all of a sudden her feelings for Damon allows her to act on them. Even with consuming feelings for Damon, she still chose Stefan in s3. He was still her choice despite her feelings for Damon, so they are going to have to explain this, I agree.

Oh, and I do think Elena can take care of herself now. That was her whole point to Damon in 4x05. That she can take care of herself now because she's a vampire. Hell, she did go toe to toe with Connor and best him. Plus she fought back against that hybrid who grabbed her in 4x08, though I can't remember why he overpowered her. Aren't vampires stronger than hybrids?

I don't get what you are trying to say about Damon telling her she's like him or whatever, and that they are fake. I don't think he meant she's just like him in the sense that she's going to kill people when she lashes out, or that she's going to turn into how he was in s1. I think he meant she's a vampire now, so she is just like him in the sense that they are the same species.
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PostSubject: Re: Episode 4x08 [We'll Always Have Bourbon Street]   Wed Jan 09, 2013 1:47 pm

I wouldn't say Elena was a doll or a puppet. But she is not herself, even JP said that she has the illusion of free will. I do think her feelings for Stefan faded because of the sire bond, it was the same in the books. She had no memory of Stefan when she became a vampire at first (remember, she said Stefan was a distant memory) So, yea I think she will eventually get back to the love she had for him again. This is a series long triangle and I think it's quite silly for some DE fans to say that SE will never happen again.

It seems that all supernatural creatures are stronger than hybrids (except, Tyler) LOL. I think it's more that vampires are generally strong that werewolves, and since all hybrids are really new vamps, that they are at the bottom of the totem pole.

I think he meant a bit more than she's like him--a vampire. Because Caroline's a vampire and she's not like him, Stefan's a vampire and he's certainly not like him. But at the same time I don't think he meant she was like him in a sense of season 3. IDK, kind of don't care about that though lol.

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PostSubject: Re: Episode 4x08 [We'll Always Have Bourbon Street]   Wed Jan 09, 2013 3:34 pm

KrayBaby wrote:
I wouldn't say Elena was a doll or a puppet. But she is not herself, even JP said that she has the illusion of free will. I do think her feelings for Stefan faded because of the sire bond, it was the same in the books. She had no memory of Stefan when she became a vampire at first (remember, she said Stefan was a distant memory) So, yea I think she will eventually get back to the love she had for him again. This is a series long triangle and I think it's quite silly for some DE fans to say that SE will never happen again.

It seems that all supernatural creatures are stronger than hybrids (except, Tyler) LOL. I think it's more that vampires are generally strong that werewolves, and since all hybrids are really new vamps, that they are at the bottom of the totem pole.

I think he meant a bit more than she's like him--a vampire. Because Caroline's a vampire and she's not like him, Stefan's a vampire and he's certainly not like him. But at the same time I don't think he meant she was like him in a sense of season 3. IDK, kind of don't care about that though lol.

I agree with you, about the series long triangle. Which is why I think some Delena fans will be disappointed. There are a lot of DElena fans who think Stefan will have sex with Rebekah in 4x10, but I don't think so. Wouldn't that be stupid, seeing as he's still hoping that it's because of the sire bond Elena's changed? And that once she's rid of the sire bond they can be together again? And wouldn't Stefan sleeping with Rebekah end hope for SE? How will SE fans still have hope their ship will get together if he's having sex with Rebekah?

It's because of that one spoiler that came out that lots of Delena fans think Stebekah will have sex. It said that Stefan will learn the depths of Elena's feelings for Damon, and that he will "drown his sorrows" with the help of a hot blonde, but which hot blonde? So based on that spoiler lots of people think Stefan will lose hope and give up on Elena, and then have sex with Rebekah. I honestly don't see this happening. I took it to literally mean he will drown his sorrows, meaning drinking, and that Rebekah will persuade him to continue fighting for Elena.

How would he really know that what he finds out about Elena's feelings are really real? It could be contributed to the sire bond making her think that right? So why would he give up knowing that it could just be the sire bond talking? I honestly don't think He'll have sex with Rebekah, and I think those who do will be disappointed because they expect SE to be over with.

I think Stefan will be drinking, Rebekah will come and persuade him to search for the cure with her, for Elena, and they'll team up. She'll probably also tell him that the sire bond is clouding Elena's mind, and once the sire bond is gone she'll be able to think clearly, and then they'll have a chance again. She might even bring up 4x01 as a example of their love for one another, seeing as Rebekah was moved by it in the cages that episode. Plus them teaming up(Stefan and Rebekah)will be in line with the twitter pics of PW and Claire Holt being together on set.

What do you think? I just don't see why they would sleep together. I mean, sure, it could be used to make Elena jealous but other than that what purpose would it serve? A lot of Delena fans also think the writers are going to parallel 3x15 but with Stefan and Rebekah. Where Stefan and Rebekah have sex and Elena is jealous. But I'm tired of Rebekah being used. Is her only purpose really trusting too easily, sleeping with people who use her, and getting manipulated? She didn't learn her lesson after Klaus and Stefan betrayed her and daggered her?

They could use it to be make Elena jealous, but I still don't get why he would do it. Why would he try to make Elena jealous when, he thinks everything she's doing is because of the sire bond? Both him and Caroline thinks that the bond takes away her free will, so why would he be mad at her when the sire bond is the reason she's acting like she's acting?

Quote :
How will Stefan handle his breakup with Elena when The Vampire Diaries returns? — Julia
NATALIE: It depends on how you look at it. Stefan definitely spirals a bit when he realizes the depth of Elena's feelings for Damon. But he'll drown his sorrows with the help of a hot blonde. But which hot blonde?

This right here. I posted this as well as the link over at the spoilers section, as well as a link for pics for 4x10. But anyway, that spoiler is why many Delena fans think Stefan will have sex with Rebekah. I mean it could happen, but I don't see why when he's clearly fighting for Elena. Like I'm not saying the people who think they will have sex is wrong, or the writers can't do it, but what would be the point when Stefan is getting the cure for Elena, to "fix" her because she's changed and to get rid of the sire bond taking away her free will.

What do you guys think?

EDIT: I guess I was wrong about them sleeping together? IDK, I guess it could still be because they are friends now or something. Synopsis for 4x12.

Quote :
DANGEROUS LIAISONS — When Rebekah (Claire Holt) turns down Klaus’ (Joseph Morgan) plea to stop Kol (Nathaniel Buzolic) and protect Jeremy (Steven R. McQueen), Klaus turns to Stefan (Paul Wesley) for help. After an angry confrontation with her father, Mayor Hopkins (guest star Rick Worthy), over his unconventional approach to ending the violence in Mystic Falls, Bonnie (Kat Graham) has a frightening run-in with Kol, followed by an unexpected visitor. Klaus complicates the already tense feelings between Stefan and Damon (Ian Somerhalder) by revealing a bit of Stefan’s personal life, then surprises Damon by asking for personal advice. Elena (Nina Dobrev) tells Stefan about her dangerous plan for Jeremy, leaving Stefan in a difficult spot. When the high school’s 1980s Decade Dance is cancelled by Mayor Hopkins, Stefan finds a charming way to make it up to a disappointed Rebekah. Brad Turner directed the episode written by Rebecca Sonnenshine (#412).
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PostSubject: Re: Episode 4x08 [We'll Always Have Bourbon Street]   Thu Jan 10, 2013 4:13 pm

Yea, when I first saw the spoiler I didn't think at all that he would have sex with Rebekah, it wasn't until yesterday and the 4x12 spoiler came out that I felt like he would indeed do it. I'm still hoping that he doesn't because it would be really OOC for Stefan. I really hope we are reading too much into that spoiler, drowning in sorrow seems like drinking, but the nice gesture after the 80s dance is cancelled makes it seem like more might happen. Ugh, Idk. But if it happens I don't think it will end hope for SE, I mean yea Rebekah is partially responsible for Elena's death and yea Rebekah has taunted Elena, but if Damon doesn't end SE then I don't think SR will either. Just would be weird and awkward. I know SE fans hate it though, most do anyway.

Supposedly, Elena is going to tear Stefan's heart into shreds so I guess that's why he turns to Rebekah. I'm just going to wait until after 4.10 airs so I can see what happens between him and Elena. Sometimes the description can be misleading because I have seen that a lot, so I'm really hoping they don't have sex and are just teaming up. Maybe they almost do or even kiss, but Stefan stops it because of his love for Elena. I just can't see SR and I can't get on board with that.

I have really grown to like Rebekah and I don't want to her to be used as a sex puppet that the guys turn to whenever Elena hurts either one of them. I don't think they will have sex though either. It's just not in Stefan's character. Stefan and Damon are nothing alike so I don't see them doing a parallel to 3x15 in that matter--it's just not who Stefan is--but then again Caroline did mention what a man slut Damon was and how Stefan is not, so that could have been some foreshadowing. I hope not though.

But if he doesn't have sex with Bekah, then the spoiler for 4x12 about Klaus telling or knowing something about Stefan that Damon does not know. What else could it be if it's not about sex? Maybe that they are working together?

I don't see Stefan having sex with Rebekah just to make Elena jealous, if it happens it will be because he is hurt and they are together and drunk or something and it just happens. I think 4x10 will be the tell all about how or why it is going to happen (if it does).

I just wish the episodes will air so we will know already lol.
The 4x12 spoiler is what makes me think it may happen though.

And thanks for posting the spoilers, I have seen them but I just didn't post them all in here since it kinda died down in here lol.

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PostSubject: Re: Episode 4x08 [We'll Always Have Bourbon Street]   Thu Jan 10, 2013 8:31 pm

KrayBaby wrote:
Yea, when I first saw the spoiler I didn't think at all that he would have sex with Rebekah, it wasn't until yesterday and the 4x12 spoiler came out that I felt like he would indeed do it. I'm still hoping that he doesn't because it would be really OOC for Stefan. I really hope we are reading too much into that spoiler, drowning in sorrow seems like drinking, but the nice gesture after the 80s dance is cancelled makes it seem like more might happen. Ugh, Idk. But if it happens I don't think it will end hope for SE, I mean yea Rebekah is partially responsible for Elena's death and yea Rebekah has taunted Elena, but if Damon doesn't end SE then I don't think SR will either. Just would be weird and awkward. I know SE fans hate it though, most do anyway.

Supposedly, Elena is going to tear Stefan's heart into shreds so I guess that's why he turns to Rebekah. I'm just going to wait until after 4.10 airs so I can see what happens between him and Elena. Sometimes the description can be misleading because I have seen that a lot, so I'm really hoping they don't have sex and are just teaming up. Maybe they almost do or even kiss, but Stefan stops it because of his love for Elena. I just can't see SR and I can't get on board with that.

I have really grown to like Rebekah and I don't want to her to be used as a sex puppet that the guys turn to whenever Elena hurts either one of them. I don't think they will have sex though either. It's just not in Stefan's character. Stefan and Damon are nothing alike so I don't see them doing a parallel to 3x15 in that matter--it's just not who Stefan is--but then again Caroline did mention what a man slut Damon was and how Stefan is not, so that could have been some foreshadowing. I hope not though.

But if he doesn't have sex with Bekah, then the spoiler for 4x12 about Klaus telling or knowing something about Stefan that Damon does not know. What else could it be if it's not about sex? Maybe that they are working together?

I don't see Stefan having sex with Rebekah just to make Elena jealous, if it happens it will be because he is hurt and they are together and drunk or something and it just happens. I think 4x10 will be the tell all about how or why it is going to happen (if it does).

I just wish the episodes will air so we will know already lol.
The 4x12 spoiler is what makes me think it may happen though.

And thanks for posting the spoilers, I have seen them but I just didn't post them all in here since it kinda died down in here lol.

Ever since Rebekah was first introduced and up till this point, all her sl's revolve around her being used, manipulated, and then tossed aside and her trusting too easily. If she's seriously on the show just to sleep with people and be used, then just kill her off now because they could do way more with her. I'm not saying Stefan is really using her or whatever, but think about it, he's eventually going to go back to Elena and leave Rebekah, and that would suck for her once again. Especially if he's really doing sweet gesture for her and she actually start liking him again.

I just think a lot of Delena fans are hoping that Stebekah will be long-term and I'm still not sure they even have sex. It could just be a partnership, and he sees that she's sad and try to cheer his friend up. It sounds like their a item though, judging by how it says Klaus tells Damon something about Stefan's personal life.

I also think it would be OOC for Stefan, because he doesn't cope like Damon does. Damon copes with sex, lashing out, and hurting people. I think it would be stupid though for Rebekah to get involved when Stefan used her this season, and she knows he loves Elena. Can't they give her better sl's?

I mean, when she was first introduced she was being used by Klaus. She actually was used by Klaus a lot during s3, and daggered by him as well. Then Damon used and manipulated her. Now again Klaus and Stefan used and manipulated her. It's getting tedious and repetitive at this point, she should have learned by now to stop trusting so easily.

I'm just going to refuse to believe Stebekah have sex until I see it with my own eyes in 4x10. I really don't think they do. And even if they do, it's not going to last as long as DE fans think it will. I honestly give it like 2-3 episodes before Stelena is built up again. Seriously, he's trying to get the cure for Elena so I don't see him having sex with Rebekah. Unless there's another reason he's searching for the cure now.

Oh, and I love Rebekah, she's my fave Original along with Kol. So I'm tired of her getting these lame sl's and being reduced to being other's punching bags. She's an Original, let her be one.
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