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 Episode 4x18 [American Gothic]

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PostSubject: Episode 4x18 [American Gothic]   Thu Mar 28, 2013 6:59 pm

Discuss the new episode of TVD here.

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PostSubject: Re: Episode 4x18 [American Gothic]   Thu Mar 28, 2013 8:00 pm

1 hr. left! Are we still watching live and chatting?
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PostSubject: Re: Episode 4x18 [American Gothic]   Thu Mar 28, 2013 9:03 pm

Yes, I'm in chat now. Sorry, I got the kids down early so I can watch live. Lol.

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PostSubject: Re: Episode 4x18 [American Gothic]   Fri Mar 29, 2013 11:24 am

So, I liked this episode. Not the best and it was overran with Originals and Klaroline, but not nearly as bad as I thought it would be.

First and foremost, I officially hate Klaus. I never thought I would/could hate a character on here, but I definitely hate him now. His treatment of Tyler is what really drove me there, cause anyone who reads this forum knows that Tyler is my favorite male on the show. When he is all like Tyler tried to kill me, and using that as his reasoning to want him dead was total bullcrap. Because he tried to kill Tyler first, before Tyler ever even knew what/who Klaus was in season 2 sacrifice. Actually killed him in The Reckoning and turning him into a hybrid, making him his bitch, making him put his g/f's life in danger, and making him the cause of almost getting Jeremy ran over/killed. Mind you this is all before Tyler EVER tried to kill Klaus. This guy is a complete joke and then sits there and acts like Caroline owes him any kind of favor because he saved her life twice, when he actually caused her life to be in danger 3 times. And THEN he compares himself to Bonnie as if he and Bonnie are on the same level in Caroline's life. Hate. Him. So. Much.

Okay, Klaus rant over. LOL.

The Kalijah stuff was nice, I still want Kat to pay for Jeremy but I actually really enjoyed her and Elijah scenes. And I loved the Kat/Elena bickering stuff. I wonder how silly Nina felt talking to herself LOL.

I'm really excited for prom though. We get Mabekah and looks like Bamon as well. And FORWOOD. my shipper dreams are coming true!

Josh, remember how we talking about Katherine dying. What about if Bonnie kills her? Bonnie and Jer were really close so that would make sense and what if Bonnie really does remember what happened. I saw that Nina Dobrev's mom tweeted that Nina was currently filming scenes with Bonnie as Katherine and as Elena with Defan. So, looks like there will be some sort of Bonnie/Kat showdown. I could totally get behind Bonnie killing Kat.

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PostSubject: Re: Episode 4x18 [American Gothic]   Fri Mar 29, 2013 7:23 pm

The only good parts about this episode was the girl stuff, the fights, the taunting, mimicking, and Elena dressing like Kat and trying to mimic Kat's voice and constantly repeating what she said. Other than that I was bored with the Originals stuff.

Elena/Kat/Rebekah: Their dynamic with each other was hilarious and provided good entertainment. Loved Rebekah being Elena's enforcer and making Katherine do what Elena said. Rebekah, Elena, and Kat's cat fights with one another, as well as their banter, was also pretty good. I loved when Elena was mocking and mimicking everything Kat said, trying to get her voice right and pretend to be her. This was the best part of the whole episode, IMO. Oh yeah, and I loved when Kat was choking Elena and was talking about killing her, then Rebekah came to Elena's rescue and threw Kat to the ground.

Elejah stuff: I wasn't as grossed out by the kiss as I was when I first heard it, but I still don't like it or Elejah. At least the kiss was short and didn't last long. I wasn't bothered by it, just like ewww a little bit and prayed for it to be over. Elijah figuring out Elena is switched off and their conversation was ok. I loved when Elena was telling him how him and the others who fell for Kat is stupid, and that she'll never change. Kat is one of my fave characters though, so I'm glad she didn't die.

Kat: I laughed at everyone's reactions and groans to the news that she hooked up with Elijah. I think she was serious about having feelings for Elijah though, I don't think she's playing him at all. I was confused about something with Kalijah though. Ok, Elijah says Kat lied to him which is why he was pissed, but how did she lie? I assume he was talking about regarding Jeremy's death? I don't get it though, did he ask her if she killed anyone or something and she said no? Did he expect her not to kill anyone, and be able to get in, get the cure, and get out without collateral damage? And it's not like he hasn't killed innocents to further his own plans and goals before, so why was he so hard on Kat? I didn't get that lied to me stuff, so I was confused.

I also liked how smart Kat was, having a fake cure and getting out the house. And having the real cure locked away safely with the lady she compelled. I enjoyed her snapping Elena's neck too though. Never change Kat, never change.

Klaus: Ughh, I hated him this episode, but that's normal since I hate him every episode he's in, lol. But I hated his voice when he was bitching and moaning earlier in the episode. And when he begged Caroline to help I was hoping she would have done to him what he did to her in their last scene last episode. And I guess everything is cool between them now just because he's letting her boyfriend back into town for prom? SMH, and his lame "Tyler tried to kill me first" sounded like the argument little kids used. And it's not even true. Everything that's happened to each of TMF since s2,3, and this season is because of Klaus, it started when him and his family came into MF and Klaus wanted power. He started the whole thing with Tyler, and he's the reason Tyler lost his mom, his girlfriend, his friend Chris, his hybrid pack, and everything else Klaus has done to Tyler since the Originals came to town. Klaus actually killed Tyler and started this whole rivalry thing with him, as well as everyone else, so no, Tyler didn't start it, you did Klaus.

And can i say I loved how Silas made Klaus his little bitch in last week's episode and this one? I loved the way he played Klaus and got into his mind, making him think he was Caroline. Like I said last week, it's about time the tables turned and Klaus is somebodies bitch this time. He can't bully and easily take on Silas like he does TMF because he's stronger than them. I did think klaroline was going to kiss and was prepared to cringe, but luckily he just thanked Caroline and asked to be friends. lol Klaus is lame. I loved Caroline's anger towards him this episode though, and when she said if it was a new way to woo her it's lame, when he told her to get out because he thought she was Silas.

And did I mention Klaus voice annoyed me this episode? Especially when he was trying to get the stake out and was bitching and moaning about it. And when he was talking to Silas/Caroline and the real Caroline.

But yeah, overall the episode was ok. I only enjoyed the dynamic between Elena/Kat/Rebekah and their scenes in the diner and their banter.

@Kray: I think a Kat/Bonnie showdone would be awesome, and someone would finally at least try to kill Kat for killing Jeremy. I thought Elena would at least snap Kat's neck or something, but nah she just talked about Jeremy dying with no feelings at all. She did seem like she showed her humanity a bit when she kept bringing him up though.

And yes, I can't wait for prom either. I actually like Mabekah and think they should at least have sex before Rebekah leaves, lol. But I do ship Mabekah though, I like them both together. I'm also looking forward to whatever we get for Bamon, we at least get a conversation if nothing else. Maybe a dance?
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PostSubject: Re: Episode 4x18 [American Gothic]   Fri Mar 29, 2013 10:49 pm

I think Kat was serious about Elijah as well. At first I thought she was playing him, but as the episode went on she seemed to genuinely care for him.

Josh, I saw someone respond to your question about why Elijah was mad on tumblr, so I just wanted to share it with you. My thoughts about it are similar because it's not really that she killed Jeremy, but that she didn't tell him about it. Here is what this person said.

Quote :

I dont think Elijah was necessarily mad at Katherine for Jeremy's death

I think it was that she didnt tell him that very important detail of her getting the cure

he started doubting her

”It’s that what i am too?, a means to survival?”’

the fact that she hid that info from him …. just made him start questioning whether she was playing him or not..

normal considering how Kat is..

so I dont think it was necessarily because he wanted to turn her into this moral compass…innocent vampire that would nt kill anyone.. turn her into something she wasnt..

i think he knows her better than that..

it’s just TRUST

”i want you to trust me, just like im trusting you”


Well she gave him the only thing that could guarantee her freedom… Im sure that speaks volumes


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PostSubject: Re: Episode 4x18 [American Gothic]   Sat Mar 30, 2013 4:04 am

I knew I forgot something. I forgot the ultimatum Elena gave Damon and Stefan at the end. I thought it was awesome when she snapped the waitress neck, but thought it was really stupid of her in the long run. Ok, so, she basically said unless they back off she's going to kill people in retaliation and it'll be on them. But that's kinda not true though, because we all know when she switches back on SHE'S the one who will feel guilt over it, not them. Well Stefan will too, but Damon won't IMO. Damon hardly feels remorse or guilt for the people that HE kills, why would he care about Elena killing random people? This guys way of vampirism consists of being the bad guy, and his motto is kill or be killed, so I don't think he would care at all about anyone Elena kills to make them back off. She's the one who will be bitching about killing innocent people when she switches back on, so this little plan of her will backfire big time IMO. She's acting like she won't be switching back on and feeling guilt but we all know she will be, and soon too since Stefan switched off sl wasn't that long.

So yeah, while the ultimatum was cool, she's ultimately the one who will feel guilty about it and everything else she's done while off!Elena once she's back to normal. And I doubt Damon will feel any guilt for anyone she kills since he doesn't feel guilt for people he himself kills. I think this ultimatum will only cause them to fight harder to use the cure on her, and I think this killing someone every time they don't leave her alone will only work on Stefan.

@Kray: But still though, he's acting like he hasn't killed someone that was just collateral damage to him. And it's not like he asked, is that really lying to him? Shouldn't he be more pissed that Elena and Jeremy killed Kol, rather than the fact that Kat killed Jeremy? IDK, I guess I just don't get the big deal. So she killed someone, he has too to further his plans, what gives him the right to judge her? She's putting all her trust in the fact that he won't betray her and will make the deal with Klaus. How about a little faith?

Did he want a play-by-play of every action and kill she made to get the cure? He had to know it wouldn't be easy getting the cure, especially since others was looking for it. I mean maybe she should have told him, but I honestly don't get the big deal about it. He had to have known it wouldn't be as easy as get in, get the cure, get out. What's a little collateral damage if they got what they came for? And unless he asked her, I don't get the big deal. They needed the cure, she got it for them. Everything else is irrelevant.

And since he's mad at Kat for apparently "withholding" information, will he be mad at Elena for withholding information about how her and Jeremy killed his brother? It's only fair since he's mad at Kat for the same thing apparently.

And I def. think Kat really does love him and was completely serious about their relationship and wanting his trust. Even one of the writers for TVD thinks she was serious and really loves him, and that she wouldn't betray someone she's really in love with. I don't really care about it but I have a question though, what happened to her undying love for that noob Stefan?
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PostSubject: Re: Episode 4x18 [American Gothic]   Sat Mar 30, 2013 11:25 am

I enjoyed pace of episodes 17 and 18. Everyone were on their feet for the cure.Wow, kat and elijah together would be great since their relationship dates behind time and i also questioned why would not katherine love elijah in another thread and was surprised that happened in this episode.

I think elena should take the cure. But first she should switch her humanity back on. Wat can possibly be done right with humanity off????Now she decides to kill people and blame it on stefan and damon, WTH.

Klaroline was interesting as always. Sue me, but i do like them as a couple. There is a love/hate relationship which i enjoyed since klaus invited caroline to mikealson party and spoke to her about his father trying to kill him, to S04E17 where he tells caroline to find someone less terrible for comfort.But at the same time, I want tyler to be with caroline as well. But who am i kidding, she was with matt before hooking up with tyler. Now we are in the same situation.

I was shocked when rebekah took the cure and thought everything was over for a minute. But tricky kat, she tricked all of us again.

If there is anyone who i want to take the cure, It is elena.

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PostSubject: Re: Episode 4x18 [American Gothic]   Sun Mar 31, 2013 9:29 pm

aoshi wrote:
I think elena should take the cure. But first she should switch her humanity back on. Wat can possibly be done right with humanity off????Now she decides to kill people and blame it on stefan and damon, WTH.

I didn't get this either TBH. I mean, I guess it would work on Stefan but I don't think it'll work on Damon. He doesn't care about the people he kill, why would he all of a sudden feel guilty because of Elena's kills? While it was awesome, she's the one whose going to feel guilt about killing people when she switches back on, not Damon. She's acting like she's never going to switch back on again and will be Off!Elena forever. So at first I was all like that was badass, when I actually thought about it, Elena's the one whose going to feel guilt about it, not them. She's the one that's going to be bitching and moaning about all she did, the people she killed, while switched off, not them.

So yeah, I didn't understand the ultimatum when I really thought about it past the "That was Badass" part. I'm sure her and Stefan will be the ones that feel guilt about her killing people to get DS to back off, but she's going to feel it the most since she even felt guilty for killing Connor, who was going after her brother and threatening her family.
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PostSubject: Re: Episode 4x18 [American Gothic]   Sun Mar 31, 2013 9:34 pm

I forgot about the ultimatum, I was legit shocked when she did that. I had to cover my mouth, lol. I thnk it will work on them because think about it, in the promo they are plotting ways to get it for her so that she won't know. And then they are going back to MF, where they live. They can't just have her running around killing people and have it fall back on all the vamps in town. That puts not only her life in danger, but theirs too. You don't shit where you eat. I don't think Damon will care about killing random people, but he certainly cares about her doing it where he lives.

And Josh, I think you are missing Elijah's point. I don't think he is mad about her having to kill someone, I mean he was going to have Abby and Bonnie killed last season. I think it's about trust. She withheld information, which was pretty key factor in things. Because it was Jeremy, and who knows if TMF would have been hunting Katherine down for killing him and getting herself killed in the process or if they had access to the white oak stake, killing Elijah too if he got in the way? So, yea it did matter that she was completely honest with him. Then there lies the issue of trust, it made it seem like she was not legit with him and just playing him all along. So, while she didn't technically lie about killing him, she withheld the truth, which is basically the same thing. So, I think that's where Elijah was coming from.

Oh and the thing about Elena killing Kol, we don't even know if Elijah knows about that. And also, Elijah isn't in love with/dating/screwing Elena so that's the difference between Elena not tell him about Kol and Kat not telling him about Jeremy.

It was confirmed by one of the writers that Kat does genuinely love Elijah, but I didn't doubt that.

Aoshi- I hate Klaroline lol, but I will try not to bash them as much. It's fine that you like them though, it's your right to do so. I just can't with them.

I laughed when Rebekah took the cure and woke up like she felt refreshed or whatever she said LOL. Cause I knew Kat had duped them. Kat's not idiot, she knew they would come after her for what she did at some point. She had her plan set in motion.It was great.

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PostSubject: Re: Episode 4x18 [American Gothic]   Sun Mar 31, 2013 10:28 pm

KrayBaby wrote:
I forgot about the ultimatum, I was legit shocked when she did that. I had to cover my mouth, lol. I thnk it will work on them because think about it, in the promo they are plotting ways to get it for her so that she won't know. And then they are going back to MF, where they live. They can't just have her running around killing people and have it fall back on all the vamps in town. That puts not only her life in danger, but theirs too. You don't shit where you eat. I don't think Damon will care about killing random people, but he certainly cares about her doing it where he lives.

And Josh, I think you are missing Elijah's point. I don't think he is mad about her having to kill someone, I mean he was going to have Abby and Bonnie killed last season. I think it's about trust. She withheld information, which was pretty key factor in things. Because it was Jeremy, and who knows if TMF would have been hunting Katherine down for killing him and getting herself killed in the process or if they had access to the white oak stake, killing Elijah too if he got in the way? So, yea it did matter that she was completely honest with him. Then there lies the issue of trust, it made it seem like she was not legit with him and just playing him all along. So, while she didn't technically lie about killing him, she withheld the truth, which is basically the same thing. So, I think that's where Elijah was coming from.

Oh and the thing about Elena killing Kol, we don't even know if Elijah knows about that. And also, Elijah isn't in love with/dating/screwing Elena so that's the difference between Elena not tell him about Kol and Kat not telling him about Jeremy.

It was confirmed by one of the writers that Kat does genuinely love Elijah, but I didn't doubt that.

Aoshi- I hate Klaroline lol, but I will try not to bash them as much. It's fine that you like them though, it's your right to do so. I just can't with them.

I laughed when Rebekah took the cure and woke up like she felt refreshed or whatever she said LOL. Cause I knew Kat had duped them. Kat's not idiot, she knew they would come after her for what she did at some point. She had her plan set in motion.It was great.

Here's the thing about Elena stating Katherine killed Jeremy. She didn't, Silas did when he snap his neck. I don't know if Jeremy's death was plan on her part though. I hate the writers rewrite on this it made Elijah sound dumb imo considering Elena was in on a plan to murder him and his family. I also wonder if knew about Kol (cause she actually planned that herself) would he have listen about Jeremy.
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PostSubject: Re: Episode 4x18 [American Gothic]   Mon Apr 01, 2013 12:27 am

Well, if we can say Kat didn't kill Jeremy, then we can very well say Elena didn't kill Kol, Jeremy did. Katherine's actions caused Jeremy to die, just like Elena's actions caused Kol to die.

I agree that Elijah really shouldn't have given a shit about Jeremy, but like I said from his POV it was more than about Jeremy's death but a lot about Elijah's relationship with Katherine.

When people say oh Elijah should be so pissed and ready to kill Elena for killing his brother. While he has every right to be mad, it's not like Elijah and his family are innocent bystanders. They inserted themselves into these people's lives and then want to go boohoo when some shit goes down. I'm just not here for the Original family at all dead or alive, maybe except Rebekah.

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PostSubject: Re: Episode 4x18 [American Gothic]   Mon Apr 01, 2013 2:45 am

KrayBaby wrote:
Well, if we can say Kat didn't kill Jeremy, then we can very well say Elena didn't kill Kol, Jeremy did. Katherine's actions caused Jeremy to die, just like Elena's actions caused Kol to die.

I agree that Elijah really shouldn't have given a shit about Jeremy, but like I said from his POV it was more than about Jeremy's death but a lot about Elijah's relationship with Katherine.

When people say oh Elijah should be so pissed and ready to kill Elena for killing his brother. While he has every right to be mad, it's not like Elijah and his family are innocent bystanders. They inserted themselves into these people's lives and then want to go boohoo when some shit goes down. I'm just not here for the Original family at all dead or alive, maybe except Rebekah.

I didn't say he should kill her, I said he shouldn't listen to her or even question blink about it because again why should he care about Jeremy's death or whether Katherine told him or not. Jeremy's death and Kalijah have nothing to do with another imo it had to do with Elejah relationship (which btw they brought up again how Elijah saved during the sacrifice, he did not so I wish the writers stop having Elena say he did) because he ask Katherine how could she do that to Elena.

There is a difference Elena planned on murdering Kol (she was also active in mudering Finn, you know the harmless original), Jeremy was just collateral damage therefore one can not really say Katherine had intentions for him to die. There lies a difference.

Elejah scenes irritate me because the writers always imo make up ish all the time. Elijah didn't save Elena and Elena has plotted to murder him and his family multiple times while do they keep pretending there some friendship there just because Daniel Gillies wants something there. Its annoying and nonsensical just KC is.
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PostSubject: Re: Episode 4x18 [American Gothic]   Mon Apr 01, 2013 12:15 pm

I was speaking in general and not directly to you when I said, people think Elijah should kill Elena. And I also agreed that Elijah shouldn't give a shit about Jeremy, which I don't think he really does. I don't think that scene was necessarily about Jeremy when he confronted Katherine. For whatever reason Elijah has compassion for Elena so rightfully so, he felt bad for her situation. I think with him and Katherine itw as about their relationship and the trust between them that he didn't tell her the full truth. Which is why he felt like their relationship had been a lie and that she was just using him for her own gain.

And yes, Elena was in on the plan to kill Finn. At the time they didn't know his entire bloodline would die and as far as they knew he wanted to die anyway. As for Kol, he was no innocent person at all. Yea, it sucked that his bloodline of maybe potentially innocent vampires died along with him, but Kol had wreaked some havoc on MF in the few episodes he was in as well. Tried to kill Matt, was going to kill Jeremy if Bonnie didn't unlink the Originals. Tried to kill Bonnie, Professor Shane (when Bonnie still trusted him). Tried to have Jeremy killed again. So, while Elena did conspire to have him killed, it's not like she didn't have a good reason to. And as for Jeremy being collateral damage, that may very well be true but she didn't HAVE to use Jeremy it wasn't necessary for her to get the cure. Bonnie was their already bleeding out and Vaghn was right there as well. But she pushed Vaughn to the side and chose Jeremy. And if Jeremy was just collateral damage, then so was Kol and his vampire line.

Elejah scenes annoy me as well. Because they both screwed each other over. Elijah never saved Elena in the sacrifice, that's one thing I cringe every time I hear it.

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PostSubject: Re: Episode 4x18 [American Gothic]   Mon Apr 01, 2013 1:13 pm

KrayBaby wrote:
I was speaking in general and not directly to you when I said, people think Elijah should kill Elena. And I also agreed that Elijah shouldn't give a shit about Jeremy, which I don't think he really does. I don't think that scene was necessarily about Jeremy when he confronted Katherine. For whatever reason Elijah has compassion for Elena so rightfully so, he felt bad for her situation. I think with him and Katherine itw as about their relationship and the trust between them that he didn't tell her the full truth. Which is why he felt like their relationship had been a lie and that she was just using him for her own gain.

And yes, Elena was in on the plan to kill Finn. At the time they didn't know his entire bloodline would die and as far as they knew he wanted to die anyway. As for Kol, he was no innocent person at all. Yea, it sucked that his bloodline of maybe potentially innocent vampires died along with him, but Kol had wreaked some havoc on MF in the few episodes he was in as well. Tried to kill Matt, was going to kill Jeremy if Bonnie didn't unlink the Originals. Tried to kill Bonnie, Professor Shane (when Bonnie still trusted him). Tried to have Jeremy killed again. So, while Elena did conspire to have him killed, it's not like she didn't have a good reason to. And as for Jeremy being collateral damage, that may very well be true but she didn't HAVE to use Jeremy it wasn't necessary for her to get the cure. Bonnie was their already bleeding out and Vaghn was right there as well. But she pushed Vaughn to the side and chose Jeremy. And if Jeremy was just collateral damage, then so was Kol and his vampire line.

Elejah scenes annoy me as well. Because they both screwed each other over. Elijah never saved Elena in the sacrifice, that's one thing I cringe every time I hear it.

Maybe I bit unforgiving on the Elena thing because she keeps sprouting ish about Elijah saving her ass when he did it. As for Kol thing, I am in the camp she only had Kol killed because he got in the way of her and Damon bumping uglies because her plan was totally contradictory to what she was sprouting about using innocent people to complete the mark. And Kol was the only one making sense but of course MFG is too stupid for brains and I pretty sure Kol is on the other side telling Jeremy "I told you, dumbasses so".
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PostSubject: Re: Episode 4x18 [American Gothic]   Mon Apr 01, 2013 1:46 pm

True enough, Kol was right in his ramblings. However, he wasn't making much sense all he had was hearsay and they thought they could legit get the cure without waking Silas. I do disagree wholeheartedly that she killed Kol because he stopped them from having sex because at that point they weren't being intimate anymore and secondly they could have just daggered Kol and had Damon released from compulsion. I think Elena really thought she was killing 2 stones with one bird. It was messed up that the vamp line died too, but I honestly don't believe she would have done that if she wasn't sired to Damon, but that is debatable.

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PostSubject: Re: Episode 4x18 [American Gothic]   Mon Apr 01, 2013 1:56 pm

KrayBaby wrote:
True enough, Kol was right in his ramblings. However, he wasn't making much sense all he had was hearsay and they thought they could legit get the cure without waking Silas. I do disagree wholeheartedly that she killed Kol because he stopped them from having sex because at that point they weren't being intimate anymore and secondly they could have just daggered Kol and had Damon released from compulsion. I think Elena really thought she was killing 2 stones with one bird. It was messed up that the vamp line died too, but I honestly don't believe she would have done that if she wasn't sired to Damon, but that is debatable.

So it just messy writing that she took issue with Jeremy killing random vampires because she felt it was morally wrong or because they didn't ask for it and it put Jeremy's harm way but once she separated from Damon all of sudden Jeremy should risk his life to kill an original and kill a vampire line off, who may be innocent. I call bullshit. Damon had just invoke his sirebond for Elena to come see him before Kol interfere so her change in tune to me had alot to do with not being able with Damon because her change of attitude went from extreme to another.
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PostSubject: Re: Episode 4x18 [American Gothic]   Mon Apr 01, 2013 2:16 pm

Actually, Elena's only opposition was that she didn't want Jeremy involved if he was put at risk. She left Jeremy with Damon so he could train him to kill vampires before Kol was even in the picture. And Jeremy isn't a baby, he wanted to do it for his sister. He was more than ready and willing to kill vampires/hybrids for his sister. I still don't believe she would have even been okay with that if she wasn't sired to Damon, just like Matt said, "The old Elena would have never left them alone with Damon at the lakehouse." Or something to that extent.

And yes, killing Kol was really risky and that is why Bonnie was going to help so that it could be easy for him to do it and not risky. And Kol had to be put down either way because Damon was compelled to kill him. So yes, while she wanted to be with Damon she also wanted to protect Jeremy and the only way to do that is for her to break Damon's compulsion. She also wanted the cure and she thought the fastest way to do that and to break compulsion is to stake Kol, with Bonnie involved it wouldn't have been any risk considering she took Kol down with just a look. I do agree though, that Elena's morals are all over the place but again this season she hasn't been herself. I'm not even an Elena stan nor fan or whatever, I'm pretty indifferent to her, but I just feel like she gets a lot of unnecessary hate and I'm not directing that directly to you, it's just something I have noticed.

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PostSubject: Re: Episode 4x18 [American Gothic]   Mon Apr 01, 2013 3:49 pm

It was an okay episode, i dont really like the originals and i hate klaroline so thats probably why i didnt really enjoy it but i have discovered a new love for elijah and katherine I love you

Right, klaus rant. How can he say that Tyler and him are even, its not even close to the truth! Klaus has ruined Tylers life by;
1. Trying to use him in the sacrifice.
2. Killing him and changing him into a hybrid.
3. Telling him to get Jeremy off vervain.
4. Forcing him to bite Caroline.
5. Tyler having to turn 100 times to break the side bond.
6. Using his body.
7. I think Klaus has something to do with Chris dying?
8. Killing his mum.
9. Biting Caroline.
10. Making tyler leave town (again).

Tell me if i've missed anything.

How Tyler has got Klaus;

1. Unsiring himself to him.
2. Unsiring the other hybrids.
3. Saying he was going to use the cure against him.

Tell me if i've missed anything for him aswell, but yeah. I think Klaus has done a lot more to Tyler than Tyler has done to Klaus. I cant wait till Tyler comes back and see's whats happening between Klaus and Caroline, because he'll make Caroline feel bad and then she'll maybe stop flirting with Klaus. I actually cant wait for his return ahhhhhhh Smile

I so badly wanted Rebekah to be cured, i was actually screaming at her to drink it, but then it didnt work Sad poor bex

Omg. Elijah in a suit. I forgot how amazing he looked. He is beautiful. I totally ship him and Katherine together, how he doesnt give up on 'katerina' instead of 'katherine'. Awww Very Happy

I really really really dislike Elena. Really really really really dislike her. Stefan was so right by saying that when this was over that he was going to leave, i would leave aswell.

So yeah, it was okay but the episode just made me realize how much Klaus irritates me Smile

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PostSubject: Re: Episode 4x18 [American Gothic]   Mon Apr 01, 2013 5:27 pm

I love it when people hate Klaus as much as I do. I can always count on Rachel and Josh to vent about Klaus/Klaroline with me LOL. Rachel I totally agree and think you covered it all, except the body switch thing, Tyler was a willing participant in that. But everything else was spot on. I just hate the guy so much, I used to didn't hate him at all until about episode 9 this season.

I ship Kalijah as well, but I just have a feeling that she will die soon. I just can't shake the feeling really. Because she really has no other purpose on the show. IF Nina didn't have to play her I would not feel this way but I just don't see Nina in a constant role as Katherine/Elijah's love interest if the Originals show get picked up.

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PostSubject: Re: Episode 4x18 [American Gothic]   Mon Apr 01, 2013 5:35 pm

Quote :
And Josh, I think you are missing Elijah's point. I don't think he is mad about her having to kill someone, I mean he was going to have Abby and Bonnie killed last season. I think it's about trust. She withheld information, which was pretty key factor in things. Because it was Jeremy, and who knows if TMF would have been hunting Katherine down for killing him and getting herself killed in the process or if they had access to the white oak stake, killing Elijah too if he got in the way? So, yea it did matter that she was completely honest with him. Then there lies the issue of trust, it made it seem like she was not legit with him and just playing him all along. So, while she didn't technically lie about killing him, she withheld the truth, which is basically the same thing. So, I think that's where Elijah was coming from.

Oh and the thing about Elena killing Kol, we don't even know if Elijah knows about that. And also, Elijah isn't in love with/dating/screwing Elena so that's the difference between Elena not tell him about Kol and Kat not telling him about Jeremy.

It was confirmed by one of the writers that Kat does genuinely love Elijah, but I didn't doubt that.

Hmmm. But how did he know for 100% certainty that Elena was telling the truth? He just automatically believed Elena and thought the worst of kat, with no real concrete evidence. And that, assuming the worst of someone automatically, is one of the reasons I hate Stefan. So that's why I hated that scene with Elejah, because he just automatically believed Elena without question. How did he know she wasn't lying or manipulating him to get him to second guess Kat, and get the cure for herself? She has lied and manipulated him before, but he just took whatever she said at face value because she's the great Elena Gilbert who does no wrong, and has guys falling all over themselves for her, just like Kat, so I don't see why she hates Kat so much. I literally rolled my eyes at her speech about how the guys are dumb for falling for Kat, like she's better or even have the right to judge. Like she hasn't manipulated guys before to get what she wants, but Kat is oh so evil and slutty because she doesn't hide it. Like come on, she's heard Kat's story. How Klaus killed her whole family because she didn't want to die for him, how Kat became selfish because of her family dying and not wanting to go through that pain again. Elena is just as manipulative and willing to use men to her advantage, so, really, what's the difference between them except Elena's compassionate, kind, and caring? But whateves.

Anyway, I went off point. What if Elena was lying to him and he automatically assumed the worst of Kat? It was one thing that she didn't tell him, and he jumps to the conclusion he may be a means to a end, just because Kat had a hand in Jeremy's death, which he doesn't even know for sure until Kat indeed confirms it? What makes Elena so trustworthy that he believes her over Kat? And if that was the only thing that caused him to doubt Kat, why even waste time in a relationship with her, if you're just going to automatically believe others over her and assume the worst of her? He didn't even bother getting the full story of what happens, Elena tells him Kat killed Jeremy, him and Elena talk more, Kat comes and snap Elena's neck, then he's all pissed because she killed someone and didn't tell him. He doesn't even let her tell her version of events, Elena just must automatically be telling the truth, and Elena's version of what happened must be true.

My point, if he has that little faith in kat that one thing sets him to assume the worst of her, why even bother? Why waste time even? He doesn't let her explain her side, just goes off on a rant and storms off like a child. And why didn't his precious Elena tell him how she killed Kol, since she was so gleeful to tell him about Kat killing Jeremy? Elijah values trust, loyalty, honor and all that other bullshit right? And Elena is at best his friend right? So shouldn't he be just as upset that Elena also withheld information, something that actually pertains to him? IMO Jeremy's death and Kat having a hand in it, doesn't impact Kalijah at all but that's just me I guess.
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PostSubject: Re: Episode 4x18 [American Gothic]   Mon Apr 01, 2013 7:09 pm

Saying that Elena and Elijah are friends is a stretch. At best they have a respect for each other, friends though? No. So yes his girlfriend should be held at a higher standard.

You still are missing my point though because I'm not equating Jeremy and Kalijah and having either to do with the other. It's about Kalijah's relationship from Elijah's POV. Yea, Elijah may have been wrong to immediately jump on Kat about her lying but the fact is that Elena wasn't lying about it. He did jump to conclusion and say he was a means to an end, he asked her and rightfully so, because that's how it looked. Everyone was questioning whether or not Kat was sincere, so yes her withholding info like that made it seem like she was playing him and it did.
He had many reasons to believe that Kat would betray him considering her past, and reasons to believe Elena since he considered them (Elijah/Elena) to be similar in morals or whatever. Yes, it was wrong of him to jump down Kat's throat, but it wasn't wrong of him to wonder if he was being played because that's how she made it seem initially.

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PostSubject: Re: Episode 4x18 [American Gothic]   Mon Apr 01, 2013 7:31 pm

How though? I honestly don't get how he can go from she killed Jeremy to, *gasp*, what if she's playing me as well? Seems kind of a huge leap IMO. And honestly? I still don't see how her killing Jeremy affected their relationship at all. His trust issues is his problem, Kat hadn't given him any reasons to doubt her at all. Up until Elena told him how Jeremy died, why would she need to tell him about Jeremy? What good would that have done really? That's what I don't get, the big deal over him dying and Kat not telling him. What would that have accomplished exactly? How would that have helped them in any way to further this own goals?
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PostSubject: Re: Episode 4x18 [American Gothic]   Tue Apr 02, 2013 12:49 am

He came to the thought that she was using him because of how she used Jeremy as a pawn to get what she wanted (the cure), and made him wonder if she was using him as a pawn to get what she wanted (freedom). That is where it came about and how he got from Jeremy's death to wondering if he was being used. So, when he didn't tell her about Jeremy, it made him wonder if it was because she had been using him.

ETA: I just want to be clear that I do feel like Elijah let Elena off the hook too much and overreacted with Kat a bit much. From the character perspective I get where he is coming from. But it is annoying mostly that Elijah didn't say anything to Elena about Kol when he was ready to kill Klaus at the end of season 2 because he had believed Klaus had spread his siblings in the ocean somewhere.

Jose Molina confirmed that Elijah did know about Kol, BTW. His reasoning is exactly what I had been trying to say. It doesn't make much sense but it is what it is.

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PostSubject: Re: Episode 4x18 [American Gothic]   Tue Apr 02, 2013 5:51 pm

Your ETA is basically what I was trying to get at, but I suck at expressing what I meant clearly, I guess. I thought it was OTT and stupid how he immediately thought Elena was telling the truth, then jumped on the thinking the worst of Kat train. And I find it even more lame he didn't care at all that Elena killed Kol. Klaus, even with his misplaced loyalty, was the only person who genuinely cared that Kol died, yet Elijah is supposed to be the one that cares about family and all that stuff.

I do like Kalijah though from the little we actually saw on-screen. I wished that we saw how they actually got past all that other stuff from s2 though.
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