Episode 4x21 [She's Come Undone]

Quote :

“Damon (Ian Somerhalder) and Stefan (Paul Wesley) try a brutal new approach to provoke Elena (Nina Dobrev) into turning her humanity back on, and Caroline (Candice Accola) is frustrated when her attempt to intervene backfires. When Elena figures out a way to call the Salvatore brothers’ bluff, they call for backup from a surprising source. Matt (Zach Roerig) gives Rebekah (Claire Holt) some unsolicited advice on her life choices, and she tries to help him in return. Caroline has a confusing and dangerous encounter with Klaus (Joseph Morgan), and Katherine (Nina Dobrev) is suspicious when Bonnie (Kat Graham) makes her an offer that she promises will benefit them both.”

Yay, I'm all for Kat and Bonnie scenes. I wonder what offer she makes Kat? Interesting. I think Elena will turn her humanity back on at the end of this episode.

Yay! Kat's not dead, lol. I want to see what offer Bonnie gives Kat, and if Kat will take it. I'm looking forward to the Kat/Bonnie dynamic as well. And I agree that Elena def. will be turning back on this episode. I don't think they'll keep up this off!Elena hijinks thing much longer.

KrayBaby wrote:

I think Elena will turn her humanity back on at the end of this episode.

I'm dying to see elena turn her humanity back on. I get confused if its katherine or elena sometimes..........again......I'm kidding. .

Honestly, i want human elena back.

I'm enjoying off!Elena very much, this is a side of her we never see since she's always the "Good Girl"and all that during the entirety of the show. What don't you like about her?

SnatchEatErase wrote:

I'm enjoying off!Elena very much, this is a side of her we never see since she's always the "Good Girl"and all that during the entirety of the show. What don't you like about her?

I find elena as a balance to human side of the show. Rest of humans are elderly and then there is matt. In previous seasons, she fought and believed in stefan that he could be human and could be redeemed and now she is out of control and seeks no redemption. So, IDK, Call me a soap opera lover but i would want elena to be human.

SnatchEatErase wrote:

I'm enjoying off!Elena very much, this is a side of her we never see since she's always the "Good Girl"and all that during the entirety of the show. What don't you like about her?

Elena with no humanity reminded me of a really annoying Katherine. I dont see why she hates Caroline so much now shes turned it off, shes really pissed off at her for some reason

I don't like Off!Elena either, because she is annoying and bitchy, but it's been interesting to watch but I definitely don't like this version of her. Now that is not saying I want human Elena, but I prefer human to Off and sired Elena. Regular vampire Elena is who I want to see and then I can really determine if I prefer human or vamp Elena.

yeah i like her as a vamp but not as a phsyco vamp haha! i wish she wasnt sired to damom though, because i actually want to know if shes chose stefan or Damon because im still confused with who she likes more

Yea, I just want to see vamp Elena without all the extra BS.

And, honestly I do think she loves Stefan more. However, I think she loves Damon as well. With that being said, I think she will either end this season with Damon or neither.

Ehh, I'm enjoying her. It's nice to see her without any inhibitions and doing what she wants. That's going to change when she turns back on and feels all guilty and whatnot.

I'm not saying she has to turn human, but no humanity Elena is just not my cup of tea. It's been interesting to see her be different but Off!Elena is manipulative, mean, heartless, and cruel. So, I just want to see Elena as a vamp and just letting loose but still has some of the aspects of the Elena as a human. JMO.

lol I don't think she's that bad. Before the whole force the cure down her throat thing, she pretty much kept to herself and only wanted to have fun. Damon and Stefan trying to force stuff down her throat is the reason she's acting out now. I never got the urgency they had to get the cure and force it down her throat. What did she do that warranted that? It wasn't like she was super out of control, and she pretty much stayed out of their hair until they messed with her plans of having fun.

She killed the girl on the bus in 4x16, and at the beginning of 4x16. Wreckless killing is what will get them all caught and killed. Which is why Damon had to kill Lexi, because he was being careless and people were catching on.

Same episode she tried to kill her best friend's mom, and 3 seconds later she tried to kill her best friend. This all happened and had nothing to do with them curing her.

If Elena really didn't want to be bothered with them, then she could leave town and never look back. No one can force her to stay in MF, so killing just because they want her to get the cure is not a valid excuse for me.

She didn't kill the girl on the bus, just fed off her and sent her on her way. And I thought Damon stopped her from killing that one chick in the road? I don't think she actually killed anyone, just fed from them, she even gave that cheerleading chick a scarf to put around her neck.

She tried to kill Liz? I thought she just pushed her against the wall? I'll give you the Caroline thing, but that was only one thing, and both of them have done far worst than that. And it wouldn't have happened if Stefan and Caroline wasn't trying to boss her around before. Other than trying to kill Caroline what else did Elena do that warranted them trying to force a cure down her throat?

Yea, if Damon wasn't there no doubt in my mind if she would have killed that lady and if she had her way she would be killing because she just does not care. And you are right she didn't kill that girl, but it was still reckless and careless because what if someone had saw that? She is being stupid IMO.

I do think she would have killed Liz and especially since that was right after she saw Steroline dancing and was jealous. Yes, Damon and Stefan have done far worse and didn't win either of them any awards with anybody. It was careless, stupid, and reckless when they did it just as it is with Elena IMO. Damon did the same in season and he had to kill his brothers best friend in order to clean up behind himself. Stefan was shitty in season 3 and when he did turn his humanity back on we know that all it made him feel is remorse and pain. The same would be for Elena, but probably worse. So yes, they are just trying to help before she completely loses herself because one day she will turn it back on it and she is going to feel like a damn fool.

And at the time of the Liz accident Stefan and CAroline had let it go. They were dancing and having fun, so does that okay Elena to try to kill her mom? It doesn't.

Damon killed Lexi because he fucked up the town and was about get himself caught. No matter the reason, it was wrong.
Stefan had Andy compelled to kill herself so that DE would back off. It was wrong no matter the reason.
Liz did nothing to deserve that treatment she got because since season 3 she has only ever tried to help them and neither did Caroline.

Killing that waitress was unnecessary and only wanted to make them cure her even more. Then she suppose to do even more terrible things in the upcoming episode. So, while Elena isn't completely out of control, she is certainly becoming more out of control with each passing episode.

But does any of that really give them the right to try to force a cure down her throat? And seeing as it was Damon who made her turn off in the first place, it wasn't her choice to be that way. What was the point of Damon forcing her to turn it off to not have to deal with Jeremy's death, if they then decided to force her to turn human? She's still going to feel the pain of Jeremy's death, so what was the point in the first place then? And no matter what she does, I don't think it gives either brother the right to play god with her life. IMO it started when Damon and Stefan decided to force the cure down her throat, despite her saying numerous times she doesn't want the cure. She was perfectly fine having fun before they started with their bullshit.

She gave Damon and Stefan a ultimatum, leave her alone or she'll keep killing people. According to the recent webclip she hasn't killed anyone in a week, so obv she held up her end of the ultimatum, but once again they're messing with her and trying to control her life. I can see why she's pissed and killing people TBH. I blame the whole thing on both brothers. I still don't see the urgency or reason why Damon even forced her to turn it off, since it's only been 4 days since he used the sire bond to make her to turn off. She hasn't even had enough time to cope and forget about Jeremy's death, the grief and pain will still be there yet they want her to feel it now?

And I still say she didn't really do anything horrible until the waitress necksnap. Her trying to kill Caroline was over the top, but caroline was trying to control her and tell her what to do, just like the Salvatores, so she got pissed. She wasn't even really doing anything bad yet Stefan and Caroline kept pestering her in 4x16.

She bit and fed on a cheerleader, but didn't kill her, and Stefan and Caroline get all upset over it. Why? She didn't kill her, she was discreet, and she gave her a scarf to cover up the bite. She has to feed right? Did they want her to starve?

Elena lets Caroline fall on her ass after she continues to try to boss her around, and all of a sudden Stefan vervains her? Why? Oh the horror, she let Caroline fall! She's an evil, evil, person!

Elena undresses in front of Stefan and throws a party. She's still not doing anything but wanting to have fun and do what she wants. She sees Steroline, gets jealous and mad because both are having fun after spending all day shitting on her fun, so she goes to leave. She runs into liz, then shoves her into a wall, and Caroline gets all defensive and tries to attack her. LOL. I don't think she would have killed Liz.

Elena fights Caroline: Like I said, Elena was mad because all day both Stefan and Caroline was shitting on her fun and trying to control her, so they fight. The killing was OTT but the fight escalated because of caroline. The fight happening in the first place was because of Caroline.

All I'm saying is all the times she's done something to Stefan, Caroline, Damon, etc, is when someone tries to tell her what to do. Maybe they shouldn't have used the sire bond to force her to switch off in the first place? Especially since they couldn't handle her switched off and tried to micromanage her life? Killing the waitress was because they wouldn't listen to her, and kept trying to force a cure down her throat even though she said she didn't want it. Everything that led up to her killing the waitress was because of Damon and Stefan, because they wouldn't stop and listen to her. Before all this she basically ignored them and only wanted to have fun, fun which didn't cause any harm at all. It was only until they started interfering that she got angry and retaliated.

And now in 4x19 they still won't let it go, and it's going to end badly for both of them because they think they know what's best for her. And actually, I don't feel bad for Damon at all because it's his fault. If both had took a backseat and left Elena alone, well she wouldn't be kissing Stefan and telling Damon stuff to piss him off. *Shrug*

Whoa. I have NEVER said they have a right to force the cure on her. I simply stated that I don't like NoHumanityElena. You wanted reasons and I gave you that, I never said Damon and Stefan had any right to force anything on her.

With that being said, that does not make it okay and it does not justify her killing innocent people. Yes, it is Damon that made her turn off her humanity. But at the same time when the exact same thing happened to Stefan last season, she fought for her when he didn't want her too. I don't see any difference in the situations between S and E. So, I can understand why Stefan is fighting for her even when she doesn't want it.

Getting pissed does not justify killing someone. She has the ability not to do it and she has the ability to cut her emotions on, so I'm sorry but she doesn't get sympathy from me in that regard. IF she didn't want to be bothered with these people then she could leave town and never look back.

But, I do however agree that locking her up and/or forcing her to take a cure is not right and I don't condone that.

Were you this persistent when it was Stefan that was forced to turn off his emotions? When Elena had him vervained and locked up as well?

The fight was Caroline's fault? LOL oh Lord. Let me just stop this conversation now. Because certainly Caroline told Elena she didn't want to fight her. So because Caroline was worried about her friend she deserved her mom getting her and almost getting killed for defending her? I can't. Sorry.I think your bias against Caroline and Stefan is heavily influencing your thinking on the matter TBCH.

I just really want to know if you felt the same way when the show was on the other foot when it was Stefan last season?

Actually it does since it's their fault in the first place. Stefan, Damon, and Caroline trying to force the cure on her was the catalyst that led to her being the way she is right now. Before the cure stuff she was minding her own business, just wanted to have fun, and was pretty much doing her own thing. She hadn't killed anyone. She hadn't brought attention to herself. When she fed she covered her tracks. She threw parties. She was having fun. Then Stefan and Caroline started shitting on her fun so she retaliated. Then Damon did the same and her and Rebekah ditched him, and went to look for the cure to take it off the table. So yeah, she pretty much left the others alone until they started trying to micromanage her life, and force cures down her throat.

She fed off the woman in the road, Damon stopped her. She left.

She fed off the cheerleader, but covered her tracks and didn't kill her. Stefan and Caroline judged her for it, so she let Caroline fall on her ass.

Stefan vervains her, she throws a party.

Damon tries looking for the cure, is playing Elena. She tries to play him back, he gets all aggressive, Rebekah snaps his neck.

off!Elena kindly asks both brothers to stop looking for the cure, they refuse. She kills the waitress.

Looks to me like she only bothered with them when they tried to control her. Other than that they basically was nothing to her. And I do see a difference. The biggest being Elena wasn't trying to force a cure down his throat. She tried to make him feel, to make him want to feel. They just skipped that step and decided to try forcing a cure down her throat. So yeah, I would say that there is a difference.

And, actually, yes, I thought Lexi's methods was terrible and she was a shitty person. Was I persistent when Stefan was forced to turn off his emotions? lol you know the answer, but what the heck. Nah, I didn't care that his emotions was forced off or whatever. But I also didn't care when Damon did it to Elena, because she begged him to make it stop. What's your point?

Was I persistent when Elena had him vervained and locked up? LOL, nah I hate Stefan, why would I care? But I did care when Lexi was doing her fucked up methods on Stefan. Actually all of us on the DE forums thinks her methods was fucked off, and she screwed Stefan up worse than he already is. So, while I didn't care about him being locked up, I did care when Lexi basically tortured him to make him feel, and when it turned out she tortured him to de-ripperfy him as well.

How wasn't it caroline's fault? She's been a shitty friend this season to Elena, and that combined with their frienemies dynamic, and how Caroline likes to impose on her life and judge and butt into her business, and how Caroline basically was trying to boss her around, of course off!Elena snapped and fought her. It was Caroline's fault that led up to the fight, because of Elena's earlier feelings towards her and Caroline not being a great friend, the animosity, and what happened that day between them. So yeah, it was.

LOL what bias? I'm also holding Damon accountable for the part he played in this whole thing as well. I did mention all three several times in my other posts on this subject, so what bias? And it was entirely caroline's fault for being a shitty friend. I'm not saying that she deserved to get killed or whatever, but she was the catalyst that led to the fight beginning in the first place.

Like I said, I hate Stefan and think he's lame, but I didn't cheer or anything when he was tortured by Lexi. And even Elena wasn't that into it, seeing as she had to go outside because she couldn't handle it. So while I hate him, I thought Lexi was seriously messed up for her brand of helping Stefan.

LOL. mmmkay.

Just going to agree to disagree.

If you say so.. Agree to disagree.