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 Matt Donovan

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PostSubject: Matt Donovan   Thu Sep 20, 2012 11:32 pm

First topic message reminder :

Discuss the cutie Matt Donovan
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PostSubject: Re: Matt Donovan   Tue Oct 09, 2012 12:23 am

YumYumOnigiri wrote:
KrayBaby wrote:
I thought that's where they were taking that story and then I saw the finale and was like nevermind lol.


i mean if they really wanted to I'm sure they could... but I don't think anything will be happening for them in the frist half of this season. I don't think his friends would let him live it down... not to mention how pissed they might be
Yep! Especially since he suppose to be proving that he was worth saving, dating Rebekah would just go against that. I do think if Rebekah lives by the end of the season they may put them together.

By the way it pisses me off that Matt has to prove his worth. Like WTF? Elena is by no means, better than him. I love TVD but I hate so much how they have everyone up Elena's a** all the time. Rolling Eyes
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PostSubject: Re: Matt Donovan   Sat Oct 20, 2012 5:23 pm

Matt came with a save in the blood Dept. But I do not want him thinking his life is less than because no matter what Damon and Stefan say to him You do matter Matt. Its your life do not let anyone make you feel less then. I also like that he lit a Lamp for Vicki . I would like to here Matt talk about them a Little more

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PostSubject: Re: Matt Donovan   Sat Oct 20, 2012 5:24 pm

roar33 wrote:


This. Hsikwsbjxldba I love you

I love them and want them together

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PostSubject: Re: Matt Donovan   Sun Oct 21, 2012 9:08 am

pivoe wrote:
Aw! Matt is such a cutie! I love you

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PostSubject: Re: Matt Donovan   Wed Jan 30, 2013 5:29 am

TVD needs to be doing a lot more with Matt then they are doing now . Matt should have so much more Story lines going for him right now . HELLO MATT is -In-between 2 worlds and has to walk in both and watch out for the Traps in Both worlds WHERE THE HELL IS THIS STORY AT

Matt could be like Gunn on angel we saw what it was like for Gunn to walk in both worlds and have to deal with both worlds at the same time and how some times it backfired on him .Sometimes Gunn had to pick one world over the other, sometimes he lost in both worlds and sometimes he won in both then there was the times where it was not a win a still mate and he had to just live with that but in the end Gunn somehow made it work

WHERE IS THIS STORY FOR MATT

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PostSubject: Re: Matt Donovan   Wed Mar 20, 2013 3:35 pm

I have loved Matt since season 1 and he has always been in my top 5 characters, but now I am wondering why he is actually still alive? I think it's unfair that Jeremy and Alaric are dead and Tyler's left town again and Matt is still somehow okay. Hes really beginning to annoy me. I do love him but when is he next going to get a decent storyline?

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PostSubject: Re: Matt Donovan   Wed Mar 20, 2013 4:25 pm

roar33 wrote:
I have loved Matt since season 1 and he has always been in my top 5 characters, but now I am wondering why he is actually still alive? I think it's unfair that Jeremy and Alaric are dead and Tyler's left town again and Matt is still somehow okay. Hes really beginning to annoy me. I do love him but when is he next going to get a decent storyline?

This actually pissed me off as well. They made Tyler run because of lame ass klaroline, and I heard it was because they don't know what else to do with Tyler. Yet they have April still on this show. And Liz. And Matt. I will seriously eat a hat if anyone can tell me what's April purpose this season? Like come on, get rid of these other irrelevant lame ass characters.

I really do like Matt though, but he's hardly relevant to any sl really.
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PostSubject: Re: Matt Donovan   Wed Mar 20, 2013 6:15 pm

Lol @ eat a hat.

I agree though, Matt has no relevance. I love him, he is sweet guy and a great friend, but I'm annoyed by him as well because he has no great relevance at all. He's just the human. So, I guess that's why he is still there. I hope next season they add more depth to his character.

As for April she is the most annoying character ever on this show. Her voice grates my nerves. But the difference between her and Liz versus Matt is that Matt is supposed to be a secondary character, while Liz and April are only on recurring status and while Rebekah is also recurring she gets more screen time than Matt, Tyler and Jeremy.

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PostSubject: Re: Matt Donovan   Wed Mar 20, 2013 6:21 pm

Yeah I dont have anything against him, I love him to bits but I just get annoyed that characters with better storylines get killed off or sent away. Hes had plenty of chances to get great storylines but I feel that the writers just cant be bothered, but yeah. I actually quite like April, I think shes meant to be the most normal human on the show but I actually dont mind her. I wish her and Rebekah got close again though Smile

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PostSubject: Re: Matt Donovan   Wed Mar 20, 2013 6:49 pm

That's the thing though, April's not the most normal human. She has been brought into the supernatural world because of her father. So far she has not had any relevance, every scene she has had could have been had without her. The only thing she was good for was bringing Rebekah back, otherwise she has had no real purpose on the show.
I think had they made her more relevant or written the bits she has had better, she wouldn't be so annoying to most people.

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PostSubject: Re: Matt Donovan   Wed Mar 20, 2013 7:17 pm

Quote :
Lol @ eat a hat.

I agree though, Matt has no relevance. I love him, he is sweet guy and a great friend, but I'm annoyed by him as well because he has no great relevance at all. He's just the human. So, I guess that's why he is still there. I hope next season they add more depth to his character.

As for April she is the most annoying character ever on this show. Her voice grates my nerves. But the difference between her and Liz versus Matt is that Matt is supposed to be a secondary character, while Liz and April are only on recurring status and while Rebekah is also recurring she gets more screen time than Matt, Tyler and Jeremy.

Exactly, right? Matt isn't relevant to any of the sl's, but they keep him around because he's supposed to be the only human in the circle of supernatural. If they can choose to keep him around then, IMO, they could have done more with Tyler. I don't see what part Matt can play in this off!Elena stuff either, since in 4x17 she'll be in NY then Penn in 4x18 with Rebekah. So yeah, next season maybe they'll have more for him possibly, since the cast has been cut down a bit this season.

I forgot April was the one to find and undagger Rebekah. That's about the only thing she actually was used for this season. I thought she would have been part of the cure sl, but so far all she's done is randomly ask where Rebekah is when she got daggered, found her and released her, then called and asked Elena where Jeremy is. Is that her purpose? Every time someone dies and goes missing she's call someone or be looking for that person?

I don't get why they introduced the plot that she knew Connor but didn't actually get into it at all afterwards.

Quote :
That's the thing though, April's not the most normal human. She has been brought into the supernatural world because of her father. So far she has not had any relevance, every scene she has had could have been had without her. The only thing she was good for was bringing Rebekah back, otherwise she has had no real purpose on the show.
I think had they made her more relevant or written the bits she has had better, she wouldn't be so annoying to most people.

Exactly. All she did when Rebekah was missing was constantly go up to Jeremy and Matt and ask if they had seen Rebekah. Then she undaggered Rebekah, was her lackey for one episode, got connected to a spell and almost died, then promptly disappeared. Then she called Elena asking for Jeremy in 4x15. Basically she is just on-screen wasting time and looking for people and asking around about them. Can she die already? Please?
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PostSubject: Re: Matt Donovan   Tue Mar 26, 2013 10:31 am

Right, Matt has been so irrelevant since season 3. He hasn't really had a storyline since season 2, the only thing he did last season is the Vicki ghost stuff in Smells like Teen Spirit and the finale with Elena dying. This season he hasn't served any real purpose at all. He wasn't involved in the cure stuff, he is barely in any episodes and most of the ones he is in, he is only in a scene or 2 and most of his scenes were with Jeremy and Elena and now that Jeremy is dead he doesn't have him, and he doesn't have Tyler anymore. And well Elena has no humanity so she could care less about him now. They could do so much with Tyler, but they send him away. I really hope they let him come back when Klaus leaves.

And April is just so bleh, I really thought she had a part in the cure stuff, but nope. I thought she would have something if they brought her dad back, but nope he was human so he will stay dead. She has been the most useless character to ever be on this show. The things she has done, someone else could have easily done, some random extra.

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PostSubject: Re: Matt Donovan   Thu Mar 28, 2013 12:27 am

I remembered reading he's kept around because he's the only human left, or something to that effect? That sounds lame to me. Liz is human still. Tyler's mom was still human. Unless they mean the human one in TMF? I really think/hope they'll give him better sl's next season, since the cast has been cut down and there's fewer people now. The only time Matt has actually been helpful and driven the plot forward, was in 4x02 with the whole feeding thing, then that one episode where he tells Damon about Pastor's Young's call history. And 4x01 I guess? He did tell the others about Pastor Young's farm.

And I think Tyler will come back as well next season, because Klaus will be down in NO so I don't see why he wouldn't be brought back. I'll be pissed if Tyler isn't brought back, because they have a opportunity to once Klaus leaves.

April is just useless and I don't get why she's alive at all. They just completely dropped the ball with her, and now she's just there. I thought she would be part of the cure/Silas sl too, especially since Conner knew her. But after that scene where Connor says he knows her, nothing else was done and it wasn't brought up again. I don't get her purpose or point, like at all.
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PostSubject: Re: Matt Donovan   Thu Mar 28, 2013 2:36 am

When they say he is the only human, they are referring to just the main cast. Elena, Stefan, Damon, Jeremy, Bonnie, Caroline, Matt, Klaus and Tyler. He really is just the only human, which makes sense because they do need a to have somewhat of a normal guy on the show, so I hope he stays human until the end. But I just want him to get a relevant storyline. The things you named was merely something for him to do, but wasn't really relevant, maybe except the feeding thing. Because there really was no one else she could have fed on without feeling the guilt. The phone calls, I'm sure that could have come out a different way. I just want Matt to have his own SL that lasts more than an episode. The last time he had a real storyline was when he found out Caroline was a vamp in season 2.

IF Tyler doesn't die in 4x19 I think he will come back next season.

And April, maybe she will have a bigger role next season, and was only brought on this season so we would get used to her.

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PostSubject: Re: Matt Donovan   Thu Mar 28, 2013 6:57 pm

LOL, I actually forgot he was Elena's human blood bag for more than that one episode. He was her blood bag up until 4x04 right? lol ouch. I remember these post 3x22/pre-season 4 interviews where JP said they was going to explore Matt/Caroline again, so maybe that'll happen next season over Steroline happening. Maybe then he'll be more important.

I hope Tyler doesn't die in 4x19, otherwise I'll be mad that they brought him back to kill him off. Such a lame way to go, especially by Klaus's hands.

ETA: I mentioned in the episode thread about the TVD/BTVS comparisons and spoilers. The other posters on the DE forum said that April could be the key to defeating Silas, like some girl whose name I forgot was the key to defeating the villain on BTVS.
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PostSubject: Re: Matt Donovan   Wed Apr 03, 2013 8:35 am

Did yous know that in season 1 matt's Mum was meant to be some supernatural thing that fed off sexual energy? If you watch the season 1 deleted scenes, you'll find a scene when she is kissing a guy and he just collapses, its so random. I think the writers were going to give matt a storyline like that but they decided not to do it, thank god! But yeah, the only decent scenes with Matt lately were when Jeremy died, i thought his scenes were so cute, and when Tyler gave him the house, i thought that was a really nice scene too Smile
If tyler dies in 4x19, i'll be super annoyed, i dont think that will happen though Razz

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PostSubject: Re: Matt Donovan   Wed Apr 03, 2013 3:49 pm

roar33 wrote:
Did yous know that in season 1 matt's Mum was meant to be some supernatural thing that fed off sexual energy? If you watch the season 1 deleted scenes, you'll find a scene when she is kissing a guy and he just collapses, its so random. I think the writers were going to give matt a storyline like that but they decided not to do it, thank god! But yeah, the only decent scenes with Matt lately were when Jeremy died, i thought his scenes were so cute, and when Tyler gave him the house, i thought that was a really nice scene too Smile
If tyler dies in 4x19, i'll be super annoyed, i dont think that will happen though Razz

It's not official but Matt's mum was a succubus. She fed off the sexual energy of ppl and quite possibly killed them. Woulda been a hell of a plotline to do.

Honestly? I still love Matt. Everyone has just drifted off to this warped sense of reality after everything that's happened to them, and he's still the guy busting the tables at the Grille. I find that in itself grounds and steadies the show a little bit. Matt's a steady character, but agree or disagree every show needs one. If only though Matt Donovan had Matt Honeycutt's courage.. Laughing

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PostSubject: Re: Matt Donovan   Wed Apr 03, 2013 6:52 pm

Yea, Matt's mom was going to be a succubus. They feed off sexual energy, and could kill if they took too much. I thought it would have been a good thing to add to the show.

Actually, I just read an interview that JP did and the interviewer asked if they plan to introduce any new supernaturals and JP basically said they were not. She then mentioned the succubus storyline in season 1 and said they cut it because she felt like it didn't fit in with the mythology of TVD.

The thing about Matt, I don't mind him being the steady guy, the human guy, consistent guy on the show. But like Rachel mentioned, he just has scenes, not stories or anything. Just scenes. Show me what Matt does when he isn't busting tables or hell show me some drama at the Grille involving Matt. Bring Matt's mom back. Anything. He is just Elena's therapist and a waiter at the Grille. I love Matt and want more for him.

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PostSubject: Re: Matt Donovan   Thu Apr 04, 2013 2:29 am

I'm trying to imagine what season 5 will look like, and I'm drawing a blank. TBH I hope next season is the last season because this show is getting on my nerves. It's not because of my shipping preference, but the writing of the show and how they sacrifice the plot and story for stupid shit. Like why is Matt even still alive? Or April even? But Tyler has to run away from Klaus, but these characters continue to waste space by living for no reason? (Kray, your news in the episode thread started this rage and rant lol)

Like, I'm trying to figure out what Matt could do besides give Elena relationship advice next season, and I'm coming up blank. Unless he actually starts back dating Elena or something, I can't think of anything. He's really kind of irrelevant and useless. That'll be a plot twist actually, just have her fall in love with Matt again. That'll resolve the triangle so that neither DE or SE win, then they can drop the triangle and focus on actual development and friendships. That's the only way I can see Matt be involved in the plot. Otherwise we'll just see a scene or two of him washing tables at the grill or something, or sharing a conversation about Elena's love life for the 100th time.

*Sigh*...
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PostSubject: Re: Matt Donovan   Thu Apr 04, 2013 9:00 am

Im only watching season 5 if tyler is in it I love you

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PostSubject: Re: Matt Donovan   Thu Apr 04, 2013 3:32 pm

I'm only watching season five if the show and the writing gets better.
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PostSubject: Re: Matt Donovan   Fri Apr 05, 2013 12:47 pm

I'm not going to lie I will probably watch this show until the end. I have watched this long so it will be hard for me to not find out how it all plays out. So, unless Bonnie dies off the show I will more than likely keep watching.

I do agree, they need to get better with the writing because its so inconsistent and character growth is being sacrificed for dumb stuff like Klaus having sex for no good reason at all. Or Bonnie not getting screentime after a big on-screen development, and goes missing for the next episode and having to deal with her problems off-screen so that we can see more Originals and their man-pain.

Matt could have a lot of potential stories, but the writers are too busy up Joseph Morgan's ass to give a shit.

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PostSubject: Re: Matt Donovan   Sat Apr 06, 2013 10:07 pm

Ehh, if they keep having shit writing and sacrificing story and characters for dumb plots and stupid shit, then even Damon/DE won't keep me interested. What would be the point since they'll willing to sacrifice story time and time again? And they have shown they're willing to do so, see s3 and this Originals pandering for examples. Or how they just rush to point A to B without any logic or anything. Examples of this that I've brought up before are, the Kat thing and killing Jeremy in 4x14. Kat came out of nowhere and was a deus ex machina(Is that the correct spelling and term?), and then the Jeremy thing had no logic at all to it, considering she just as easily could have used Vaughn. They sacrifice logic and plot a lot just to go to where they need the story to go and move from A to B. Like the 3x22 underwater stuff. lol they have Elena and Stefan ARGUING underwater instead of him just going ahead and rescuing her or Matt. On top of that they are so intent on having it parallel Elena and her dad that they just defy logic and make Stefan stupid. PLus, I think it's to show the difference between Damon and Stefan which they also love to do, which is getting tiring since both are bad. The Stefan respects Elena's decisions, but Damon doesn't thing is also a big part of this as well, which they sacrificed logic for to show this lame thing.

Ok, so they have Stefan arguing with Elena underwater instead of just rushing into action right away. Then she makes him take Matt, but instead of helping her he just swims away. And she sits in the car and drown. When I saw it I couldn't stop laughing, seriously. I mean, the music and way the scene was shot was sad and all, but come on! No way would anyone leave their significant other in a car to drown, respecting their decisions or not. Like really? But because they was intent on paralleling her parents dying and Stefan rescuing her instead of her dad, they had this dude leave her underwater.

First off, why was this parallel needed? Could they have done without it? IMO? YES! I don't get why there needed to be a parallel, or why they had to show Stefan respecting her decisions. They totally ignored logic to parallel this scene and have Stefan leave her underwater.

1. He's a vampire. They shouldn't have had him down there at all if he wasn't going to rescue them both. It doesn't make sense since he has super strength. I've seen stuff like he could have lifted the truck out of the water while swimming. Or, *Gasp*, grabbed them both and swam for the surface. But they wanted to focus on him respecting her decision for a shipping moment or whatever, to show Stefan respects her decision and Damon doesn't.

2: Why did there have to be a parallel? Why couldn't Elena have gotten her and Matt out the car herself? Hey Kray, remember Alaric's training and how it made her stronger? Why couldn't it be shown in this scene? It could have shown she didn't need either Salvatore to save her, and that Alaric's training helped her to get out of dangerous situations herself. Couldn't she have broke the glass, grabbed Matt, and swam for the surface? But then as she gets close to the surface she runs out of air, so she lets Matt drift up to the surface and she dies? Her training with Alaric could have shown that she's no longer a damsel in distress.

3. If the thing in the 3x22 finale had to happen, why couldn't it be logical as well? I've mentioned this several times in other posts, but why couldn't he still respect her decision by grabbing Matt, but also rip her seatbelt off to give her the choice to live or die? Then she could either wake in the car to die, like she said she wanted in 4x01, or waited in the car, decided she didn't want to die, got out and swam but didn't make it.

In all these scenarios the desired effect of her dying is achieved but it's logical. I just can't believe that they couldn't think of any logical scenarios. I'm hardly a great writer or even a professional one, but I came up with these with a little thought. I think their downfall was wanting to parallel Elena and her dad, and showing that Stefan respecting her decision to the degree that they had him do it in 3x22.

I agree about Bonnie as well and her disappearance in episodes she could be used. She's never allowed to grieve on-screen and that's strange. Like in s3 when she's mad that Abbie was killed because of Elena. She's not allowed to tell Elena she doesn't want to see her, instead it's given to Caroline. Or with her Grams in season one. She just goes out of town and comes back with a attitude with vampires. It's not shown at all how she got to that point, just that her Grams dying was the final straw. Or her missing in 4x17, I guess because Bonnie would have told Caroline to chill out/called her out on the Klaus stuff. Or 4x16 with the girl fight. She would have ended it before it began. Or even the fact that no one visits her to make sure she hasn't killed 12 people. She's just mentioned and that's it.

I actually had that problem in 4x02 as well. Only Stefan visits her but that's because he needs something. No one else gives a fleeting thought to Bonnie or what she's up to. Especially since she risked her life to keep Elena from becoming a vampire. But nothing. When caroline was all upset there was a slumber party and sleepover. Bonnie's upset? She's left alone and forgotten. Nice. How are these girls friends again? They hardly have any interactions ans conversations with one another anymore, at least not until it's supernatural and someone needs help. They just dropped the friendship scenes between these girls. The triangle is the main focus of the show now, and friendship scenes, character development outside the triangle, focus on other characters outside the triangle, etc, isn't any shown that much or that well anymore.

This is what I mean by them being willing to sacrifice their own show and story for contrived plot points, lame triangle moments, etc. I like DE but I'll give up the triangle in a instant if it means the show gets good like it once was again, and they focus on other things besides it.

I agree about Matt, but like you said, they're too stuck up Jomo's ass to care. Or too stuck on the triangle to give him a proper storyline. That's why I liked season one. Everyone had their own sl's and interacted with one another. Everyone got character development and had episodes that focused on them. Matt actually had a sl back then, and I miss that. Everyone did. And even though Elena and Caroline wasn't great friends, you could see the friendship dynamic between Bonnie, Elena, and Caroline back in season one. And even though Caroline and Elena was catty to one another, there was times they stuck up for another and had each other back ,or even was nice to each other.

I miss season one and two. I miss KW and JP writing together. I miss the great plots and better storytelling.
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PostSubject: Re: Matt Donovan   Mon Apr 08, 2013 12:14 am

Wooo, long post. Okay, I'm going to try to respond lol.

Lol, I see you have a big hatred for that underwater scene in 3x22. I do have my issues with it, but overall it wasn't so bad. I do agree that it could have been handled much better and had the same outcome, like some of the things you came up with. I will say that I think that to just a casual viewer, they don't really take heed to these things for the most part. I will be honest, I have told you before that I have only been in the fandom part of TVD just this past summer, and didn't start watching TVD until March of last year, and so I watched the first 3 seasons with no input from the fandom and just watched it casually, I enjoyed the show so much more than I do now TBH. I didn't really notice some of the retcons and continuity errors and things like that upon first watch because I watched it all in one sitting up until 3x19. I can just honestly say that I loved the show much, much more when I watched it like that. It wasn't until after I got antsy about the show ending for the summer and starting looking online for information and kinda just got into the whole online fandom thing, that just really pointed out so many flaws of the show, and after I re-watched it that summer it was just every little thing just stood out to me lol.

But, with that being said I do agree about what you are saying. I just know the kind of person I am, that I will more than likely continue the show until the end. I really do love the show, no matter how much I gripe and get pissed about the writing. I think more than anything I love the characters on the show and the cast. I'm obsessed with Kat Graham, so that's a big part of why I will support the show while she is on it, I can't say for certain that I would leave it if she left it, IDK. I just hate not knowing how something will end or how something will play out so I guess that's why I would stick around. And TVD really is my favorite show right now, because there is no other show I put as much effort to talk about and blog about than this one. IF I was just a casual viewer then I would probably leave the show if it didn't get better. Because I did that with Weeds and Misfits. Although I really loved Misfits but after my 3 favorite characters left the show I just lost interest and couldn't imagine watching after that. Any way I'm rambling. Back to the point.

Parallels are a big part of this show and it really was pretty neat how they did the parallel, so I have no problem with that. I just wish they had done it better. Oh and I wanted to comment when you said both brothers are bad. I think it's more complex to them being bad. Because I honestly think they both are bad and good, I just think they need to find a balance between both worlds. Because while, Stefan hates that vampire side, he can't deny what he is and that's a killer. I think he has gotten better about excepting though. And Damon while he loves to Revel in his darkness, he can't just run around killing people because he lives in a human world and has to coexist with them, and again I think he has gotten better with that as well. So, I think the brothers will be good when they find that perfect balance and they can help each other find it. Because what one is lacking the other has, vice versa.

Oh, yea. You asked about the deus ex machina, yes you did use and spell it right lol. Basically like a plot device to dig the writers out of a hole. Katherine really has been a plot device IMO since last season, after season 2 she was pretty pointless to me, although I didn't mind her because we rarely saw her and when we did it was always interesting.

And about Bonnie, I can rant about this all night. But yea, she gets treated pretty terribly by the writers and to think she is the second female lead and was a huge part of the books as well. I think this season they were a little better about Bonnie. We did get to see her grieving in 4x02, but it sucked that it was because someone needed her. And then we got to see not only Damon, but Stefan care for well-being in 4x15 and 4x17, which was a nice change of things. But it's like the resorted right back to their previous antics after 4x17 and let her handle what should have been a big emotional part of her story arc off-screen, and then have her come back in 4x19 and everything seemingly fine. Of course another character sacrificed for the Originals to get screen time.

I also miss the girls friendship, them just hanging out or just having scenes together period was something I enjoyed the first couple seasons, mostly season 1. How are we supposed to believe that Bonnie and Elena are like sisters when they hardly have scenes together or talk, Elena has had her humanity off since the end of 4x15 and Bonnie won't see her until 4x19? Ridiculous. I miss the times where they had sleep over after Caroline was kidnapped or when they had one in season 1 for Bonnie after Damon had been taunting her about the necklace. Or after Bonnie lost her powers and Caroline had Matt problems and they had a girls night. Those are some of the things I enjoyed that are no longer in existence. Because everything is triangle, triangle, Originals, Klaus, triangle, Elena, Elena, Elena. Even Stefan has been pretty irrelevant this season, TBH. I'm just hoping after 4x20 we aren't smothered with more Orginal bs, since the pilot will have been over with.

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PostSubject: Re: Matt Donovan   Mon Apr 08, 2013 8:53 pm

It's not so much the parallel, it's that they dumb down their characters to further the plot, instead of using logic and rewriting the plot to fit into the story. There are other moments where they have their characters do stupid stuff to further the plot, but the underwater scene was the only one that comes to mind straight away. I actually like the parallel, the underwater shots, the music, etc, but how it played out was stupid to me. And IMO they use parallels too much. I've thought that since s3. It's like ever since they figured out people look out for them, they just go over the top with them now.

I agree with you about casual viewers. They aren't as invested and take the show at face value, with what you see is what you get. It isn't until you start analyzing, speculating, watching scenes over looking for parallels, etc, that you start seeing and picking up on things you may not have if you was just a casual viewer. Happened to me when I got involved in forums dedicated to VD, and joined the DE circles or whatever of those forums. I had already hated/disliked Stefan before I joined the forums, but after hanging with other DE fans and reading what they said about Stefan, a lot of the stuff they mentioned was stuff that I hadn't really picked up on until mentioned. That increased my hate even more lol, to the level it is right now and every time he appears on my computer screen. I don't check for parallels and stuff though, the other DE fans usually are the ones who post the gifsets of the parallels and things like that.

I also agree that you enjoy the show more when you watch it casually. I wish I could go back to watching it casually, but I don't think I can anymore. Now with joining forums and being more into the show, you analyze things more and pick up on stuff you may not have caught before. I don't think there was as many errors, lame plots, sacrificing of characters, etc, back in s1-2. That's why those are my fave seasons and I wish the show could go back to how they wrote those seasons. I know people wasn't into the sun and moon curse, and the Elena with a death wish thing during s2, but I didn't mind those sl's.

I already touched on the parallel but yeah, I didn't have a problem with the parallel, it was how they dumbed down their character to fit the plot and move it forward. Seriously, who would leave the girl he loves to die in car underwater? lol, even PW thought it was OOC for Stefan, but apparently JP thought it was very IC for him so. And it's not just that scenario, it was just the only one that popped into my head right away that I could give several other scenarios for what they did.

I agree about the triangle taking up all the story. I don't get why JP loves it so much TBH. There's way better things that could be focused on instead, but they shove the triangle to the forefront every time. They also sacrifice story for the triangle as well, because hardly any characters outside the triangle actually get good development, like in s1-2. Everyone was relevant then and at least served a purpose.

I just want the Originals gone, and the writing to get back to how it was. Other than that I have no complaints.

ETA: Basically I want it to go back to it's style of storytelling from s1. Everyone was important, everyone got development, everyone had scenes instead of only interacting with 2-3 people, there was actual friendships, there was better plots, the story was better, the vamps acted like vamps, etc. Back then I watched the show because I enjoyed it and the story and characters was good. Now I only watch for Damon/DE, whereas before the whole show interested me and kept me watching, and all the characters interested me.
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